00:00 00:00 Jay Reno welcome to the podcast thank you for having me so you are the founder 杰·雷诺（Jay Reno）欢迎来到播客，谢谢你邀请我，所以你是创始人 and CEO of feather which was in the summer 17 batch and feather is a 和 Feather 的首席执行官，这是夏季第 17 批，Feather 是 furniture subscription service so at the core of it is this idea that people 家具订阅服务的核心是人们 don't want to own things anymore how did 不想再拥有东西了怎么办 you come to that conclusion and why does it motivate your business yeah high 你得出这个结论，为什么它会激励你的生意是的，很高 level I think I saw three things happening in my life 水平 我想我看到了我生活中发生的三件事 the first was I had moved seven times in the nine years I've lived in New York 第一个是我在纽约生活的九年里搬了七次家 City and that's just above average actually that's okay not too far out of 城市，这只是高于平均水平，实际上还可以，不会太远 the ordinary and each time I've moved I've had a completely different life 平凡而每次搬家我都有完全不同的生活 situation so I've lived with roommates I've lived with a significant other I 情况所以我和室友住在一起 我和一个重要的人住在一起 我 then moved back in with one roommate then I lived with two roommates then by 然后搬回和一位室友一起住然后我和两个室友住在一起然后 myself then with a significant other and 然后我自己和一个重要的人 00:01 00:01 then by myself okay and at each phase of my life I've had completely different 然后我自己就可以了，在我人生的每个阶段我都有完全不同的经历 needs in my apartment so you know the space changes the layout of the space 我的公寓需要这样你知道空间改变了空间的布局 changes place to place the needs of the furniture needs in that space change 改变空间放置家具的需求 dramatically so for example one roommate might have had this sofa we needed but 戏剧性地，例如，一位室友可能拥有我们需要的这张沙发，但是 not a coffee table I you know he didn't have a bed for me so I'd bring them bed 不是咖啡桌 我你知道他没有床给我所以我会给他们带床 and mattress etc then when I moved to the next place that stuff might not have 和床垫等，然后当我搬到下一个地方时，这些东西可能没有 fit physically or stylistically in the next space so it might have been like a 在物理上或风格上适合下一个空间，所以它可能就像一个 modern apartment the first time then I moved into a pre-war building in 第一次现代化的公寓，然后我搬进了一座战前建筑 Brooklyn and at each phase you have completely different needs and and so 布鲁克林，在每个阶段你都有完全不同的需求，所以 one I realized that moving is a pain it's just you know we've all experienced 我意识到搬家是一种痛苦，只是你知道我们都经历过 yes so many different times and to the stuff that you have doesn't necessarily 是的，很多不同的时间，你所拥有的东西不一定 00:02 00:02 fit physically or stylistically in your next space for all the different reasons 出于各种不同的原因，在物理或风格上适合您的下一个空间 couple that with basically there being a massive problem of furniture waste in 再加上基本上存在着巨大的家具浪费问题 the u.s. so what people are doing to solve this problem today 美国。那么人们今天正在做什么来解决这个问题 is buying you know IKEA Wayfair what you might consider a disposable furniture 在 IKEA Wayfair 购买您可能认为是一次性家具的东西 that can be assembled once and set up once in someone's home and doesn't 可以在某人的家里组装一次并设置一次，并且不需要 really transport very well it's not meant to be disassembled or moved and so 确实运输得很好，不适合拆卸或移动，所以 all of that stuff might not fit in your next space so you have to throw it out 所有这些东西可能不适合你的下一个空间，所以你必须把它扔掉 and then go buy new things then you move and you throw those things out and go 然后去买新东西然后你搬家然后把那些东西扔掉然后走 buy new things to fit your foot to fit your space your life so I got my 买新东西来适合你的脚，适合你的空间，你的生活，所以我得到了我的 master's degree in climate and environmental science that care deeply 深切关怀的气候与环境科学硕士学位 about some of these big world problems especially as they relate to the 关于其中一些重大世界问题，特别是当它们与 environment the built world and realized that I think there's a there's a big 环境和建筑世界，并意识到我认为有一个很大的 00:03 00:03 opportunity to solve a couple massive problems the third piece that's kind of 解决几个大问题的机会第三部分是这样的 interesting is there's a cultural shift happening like you mentioned the way 有趣的是，正如你提到的那样，文化正在发生转变 from ownership of stuff mhm and high level where you see that going is and 从东西的所有权嗯嗯和高层，你看到的事情是和 when you see that taking shape is in the American dream changing so sounds like 当你看到美国梦的成形正在改变时，听起来就像 such a big lofty thing yeah and maybe it is but our parents generation cared 这么大的崇高的事情是的，也许是的，但我们的父母一代关心 about getting a house and cars and having a white picket fence with things 关于买房子、买汽车、用白色尖桩篱笆堆东西 in their life settling down and our generation cares about totally different 他们安定下来的生活和我们这一代关心的完全不同 things we actually aspire to have something very different which is 我们实际上渴望拥有一些非常不同的东西 freedom and flexibility mm-hmm and freedom and flexibility allows you to 自由和灵活性 mm-hmm 自由和灵活性使您能够 00:04 00:04 experience the world it allows you to maybe be bicoastal or just lean into 体验这个世界，它可以让你身处两岸，或者只是融入其中 whatever feels right for you at a given time maybe that's a job maybe that's a 在特定时间感觉适合你的任何事情也许那是一份工作也许那是一份 hobby or where you live what you're doing and and yeah we just we value 爱好或你住在哪里你正在做什么，是的，我们只是我们重视 something totally different so that shift happening yeah culture yeah but 完全不同的东西所以转变正在发生是的文化是的但是 yeah there's other problems just what would you attribute that to 是的，还有其他问题，你会把它归因于什么 just the dollar not going as far in people being like 只是美元没有像人们那样走得那么远 you know maybe I can't buy a house ever or maybe you know I'm gonna push it back 你知道也许我永远买不到房子或者你知道我会推迟买房 from like age 30 to age 45 or something is that like a main factor like what 从30岁到45岁或者其他什么是一个主要因素，比如什么 what drew that change out in the world yeah I don't I don't think that's a main 是什么让世界发生了这样的变化 是的，我不知道，我不认为这是一个主要因素 factor I think that's that's a secondary factor and you're seeing that happen 我认为这是次要因素，你会看到这种情况发生 you're seeing costs of debt rising you're seeing you have greater student 你看到债务成本上升 你看到你有更多的学生 debt yeah people are unable to you know buy and own lots of things maybe because 债务是的，人们无法购买和拥有很多东西，也许是因为 they're not as careful with their money or they're not saving etc or you know in 他们对钱不那么小心，或者他们不储蓄等等，或者你知道 00:05 00:05 the front end you may not have been given much money but your family or 前端你可能没有得到很多钱，但你的家人或 anything like that so that's certainly a an issue we consider that accessibility 类似的事情所以这肯定是我们认为可访问性的一个问题 so feather does give people access to items that they may not otherwise would 所以羽毛确实让人们能够获得原本他们可能无法获得的物品 have purchased instead would have maybe purchased something disposable that's 相反，可能会购买一些一次性的东西 cheaper right but the reality is most people are using feather and companies 更便宜吧，但现实是大多数人都在使用羽毛和公司 like us whether it's you know Rent the Runway or uber lyft or Spotify etc 喜欢我们，无论是 Rent the Runway、Uber Lyft 还是 Spotify 等 because they they don't necessarily want 因为他们不一定想要 to own things and have things tying them to a physical space yeah I found that I 拥有东西并将它们与物理空间联系起来是的，我发现我 found that really interesting because I was listening to a podcast with you that 发现这真的很有趣，因为我正在和你一起听一个播客 you've done a couple years ago and you were talking about the fundraising 你几年前就做过，当时正在谈论筹款 process and you're basically you're talking to people at VC funds who 你基本上是在和风险投资基金的人交谈，他们 definitely have the means to like buy something from you no not crazy 绝对有办法喜欢从你那里买东西，不不疯狂 expensive but like West Elm yeah and they were still buying IKEA garbage yeah 很贵，但就像西榆树一样，他们还在买宜家的垃圾是的 00:06 00:06 and so what did the prototype look like for feather did you just like sell to 那么羽毛的原型是什么样的，你喜欢卖给谁 your friends like how did you ultimately figure out that this was the product 你的朋友喜欢你最终是如何发现这就是产品的 yeah you know we started as a rental business okay so the prototype was hey 是的，你知道我们是从租赁业务开始的，所以原型是嘿 ownership is the problem today everyone buys their furniture and owns it and 所有权是当今的问题，每个人都购买家具并拥有它， that creates a lot of waste because they have to be fully responsible for their 这会造成大量浪费，因为他们必须对自己的 thing so they end up buying things and throwing them out and on the cheap end 所以他们最终会买东西然后扔掉，而且是便宜的 that's I guess kind of what you what you end up doing 我想这就是你最终要做的事情 yeah someone like a you know using VCS as an example you know they've got you 是的，像你知道的这样的人，以 VCS 为例，你知道他们已经抓住了你 know even you know analysts associates principals they've got pretty decent 即使你知道分析师和合伙人的负责人他们也很不错 salaries and like you said like they'll still choose to yeah purchase the 工资，就像你说的那样，他们仍然会选择购买 disposable thing and a lot of people do this and the reason is is because it's 一次性的东西，很多人这样做，原因是因为它 flexible and it's convenient yeah that is what feather solves today and so 灵活且方便，是的，这就是羽毛今天解决的问题，所以 00:07 00:07 the prototype that we created was okay let's get let's create a simple solve an 我们创建的原型没问题，让我们创建一个简单的解决方案 MVP that allows us to say would people prefer to subscribe to or rent things MVP 让我们能够判断人们更喜欢订阅还是租用东西 rather than buying them upfront and owning them and throwing them out so I 而不是预先购买它们并拥有它们然后将它们扔掉，所以我 built that yeah by myself just at my apartment and and just tested it yeah 是的，我自己在我的公寓建造了这个，并且刚刚测试了它，是的 they're friends okay so walk me through what it actually is because people are 他们是朋友，好吧，让我了解一下这到底是什么，因为人们是 so curious they ask us about this all the time like what can my MVP look like 他们非常好奇，他们总是问我们这个问题，比如我的 MVP 是什么样子 how do I really test out an idea is a forum for like one type of couch like 我如何真正测试一个想法是一个类似沙发类型的论坛 what was it actually yeah for this to work you you kind of need to 它实际上是什么，是的，这对你有用，你需要这样做 have a little bit of merchandising you need to have a little bit of a visual 有一点推销 你需要有一点视觉 aesthetic and appeal to see what furniture is with the prices etc yeah 美观和吸引力，看看什么家具和价格等是的 thought maybe a spreadsheet would work and that just not don't work okay but 我想也许电子表格可以用，但那只是行不通，但是 00:08 00:08 there are templates that exist to create web shops there are a few if not many 有一些模板可以用来创建网上商店，即使不是很多，也有一些 companies that do this I used Shopify you know I was paying $89 这样做的公司 我使用了 Shopify 你知道我支付了 89 美元 a month I think it was for what was then like a premium plan yeah so it's not 一个月，我认为这是当时的高级计划，是的，所以不是 that much money on the face of it and ended up I have a 表面上有那么多钱，最后我有一个 bit of a background as a product manager 有一点产品经理的背景 so I found a very inexpensive engineer 所以我找到了一个非常便宜的工程师 who was living in India and she you know she was being paid maybe 16 or $18 an 她住在印度，你知道她的工资可能是 16 或 18 美元 hour all-in to just build the MVP I decided 小时全力以赴打造我决定的 MVP that I felt comfortable investing up to like two or three thousand dollars but 我觉得投资两三千美元很舒服，但是 it was of my own personal money yeah so I said great you know this could go 这是我自己的钱，是的，所以我说很好，你知道这可以进行 nowhere I'm just gonna build that myself in the confines of my home and and 无论在哪里，我都会在我家的范围内自己建造它 that's how much it took to create it how much money did you make off of that MVP 这就是创建它花了多少钱 你从 MVP 中赚了多少钱 it's really interesting I I had it running as a side project while I was 这真的很有趣，我在工作时将其作为一个副项目运行 00:09 00:09 working my full-time job and just sent out a blast to friends on Facebook to 我正在做全职工作，刚刚在 Facebook 上给朋友们发了一条消息 see if anyone gave a and it turns out some people did and the first two 看看是否有人给出了 a，事实证明有些人给出了，前两个 orders were friends the third order was a friend of a friend okay the fourth 订单是朋友 第三个订单是朋友的朋友 好的 第四个 order was a friend of a friend and I was 订单是朋友的朋友，我是 like interesting yeah okay that you know sample size of the four doesn't give me 有趣的是，好吧，你知道这四个样本的大小并没有给我 all of the confidence but certainly gives me some confidence that people who 所有的信心，但肯定给了我一些信心 I have no idea about I don't know yeah are actually using this thing and 我不知道我不知道是的，我实际上正在使用这个东西并且 how many products did you have ooh and we had enough maybe we had four or five 你有多少产品哦，我们已经足够了，也许我们有四五个 items per product category on the website okay so as an MVP as well the 网站上每个产品类别的项目都可以，因此作为 MVP 以及 best way to test this hypothesis was to have the right selection of enough items 检验这一假设的最佳方法是正确选择足够的项目 so it's not just one dead one chair one yeah one mattress etc yeah but to have 所以这不仅仅是一张死的椅子一张床垫等等而是有 00:10 00:10 just enough so that you can actually accurately test whether people care 足以让你真正准确地测试人们是否关心 because that's ultimately what it needs to look like and what I did was I put 因为这最终就是它需要的样子，而我所做的是我把 items on the site from a retailer who could ship me things just in time 网站上的商品来自零售商，他们可以及时向我发货 effectively so when a customer would go on our site they would place an order 有效地这样当客户访问我们的网站时他们就会下订单 for an item or multiple items yeah for their home and I would then in turn say 对于一件或多件物品，是的，对于他们的家，我会反过来说 okay great they're committing to this furniture for 好吧，太好了，他们致力于购买这件家具 12 months or whatever it was okay I'm gonna go buy it myself and deliver it 12个月或者什么都可以我自己去买然后送货 myself and they're going to I'm gonna own all 我自己和他们都会 我会拥有一切 this furniture yeah front and I felt comfortable doing that rather than 这件家具是的，我觉得这样做很舒服，而不是 stockpiling everything up front and assuming that it was all gonna go well 预先储存所有东西并假设一切都会顺利 okay and so your model was based around the furniture earning itself out after 好的，所以你的模型是基于家具在之后盈利的 one year yeah okay in their early days was there 一年，是的，他们早期就在那里 any margin you built in in the first year no okay 您在第一年获得的任何利润都不行 00:11 00:11 it was it was I mean you know I wasn't paying myself so there was no delivery 是的，我的意思是你知道我没有自己付钱，所以没有送货 expense or assembly expense but I went and had one other person go with me who 费用或组装费用，但我去的时候还有另外一个人和我一起去，他 I'd usually find on TaskRabbit who would have the truck yes I also didn't have 我通常会在 TaskRabbit 上找到谁有卡车，是的，我也没有 the truck so I really lived a couch upstairs and also deliver it for me yeah 卡车，所以我真的住在楼上的沙发上，还帮我送货是的 with me now I'll be your helper yeah so I did that for the first number of 现在和我在一起，我将成为你的帮手，是的，所以我在第一批中就这样做了 orders okay um it was at that time that I realized it's important to kind of get 订单还可以，就在那时我意识到获得订单很重要 feedback from the industry as well not just consumers as to whether the 来自行业以及不仅仅是消费者的反馈是否 industry whose by definition been in the industry thinks this is a good idea or 根据定义，该行业认为这是一个好主意，或者 not well yeah coz to be clear I wasn't aware of this but listening to podcast 不太好，是的，因为要明确的是，我不知道这一点，但正在听播客 with you furniture rental is not new yeah yeah okay 和你一起租赁家具并不是什么新鲜事 Yeah Yeah OK so what's the history of that market yeah so furniture rental companies are 那么这个市场的历史是怎样的 是的，家具租赁公司是 00:12 00:12 not new you have a few legacy companies that exist yeah I've been around for 40 这并不新鲜，有几家遗留公司存在，是的，我已经存在 40 年了 years like court for example they're in all 50 例如法庭等年份，总共 50 年 states you can get furniture rented and delivered to your home 说明您可以租用家具并将其运送到您家 one the furniture is not for our demographic for people between going to 一、家具不适合我们的人口 college and buying a home in urban environments it's meant more for 大学和在城市环境中买房更有意义 corporate relocation it's super old and Steely looking it's like meeting like 公司搬迁，它非常旧，斯蒂利看起来就像见面一样 really high end or just like nod the aesthetic or all high-end they have a 真正高端或只是喜欢点头审美或所有高端他们都有 range of prices but yeah the aesthetic is not appealing the brand is just not 价格范围，但是审美不吸引人，品牌就是不吸引人 appealing to the demographic yeah at all the UX is very different it's very hard 吸引人群 是的，用户体验非常不同，这非常困难 to pay them separate conversation okay anyway yeah so this this rental market 支付给他们单独谈话 好吧 是的 所以这就是这个租赁市场 00:13 00:13 does exist yeah but we came out and said they're not addressing the massive 确实存在，是的，但我们出来说他们没有解决大规模问题 opportunity which are people who are currently buying furniture 机会是目前正在购买家具的人 thinking they want to buy furniture but in fact what they actually want is the 以为他们想买家具，但实际上他们真正想要的是 flexibility to be able to subscribe to furniture mm-hmm and subscriptions it's 能够灵活地订阅家具 mm-hmm 和订阅它的 somewhere between rental which is implying short-term rental and implying 介于意味着短期租赁的租赁和意味着短期租赁的租赁之间 you're gonna return it mm-hmm and purchasing the items which is full 你会退回它并购买已装满的物品 commitment you own it it's yours and it's your responsibility yeah we should 承诺你拥有它它是你的，这是你的责任是的我们应该 talk about that nuance which is super interesting because when you when you 谈论那个非常有趣的细微差别，因为当你 went through YC it was rent feather calm yeah and now it's live feather calm so 经历了YC，它是租金羽毛平静是的，现在它是活羽毛平静所以 it's like from the outside somewhat subtle but can you like go through that 从外面看有点微妙，但你能经历一下吗 thought process and then how it actually affected your bottom line 思考过程以及它实际上如何影响你的底线 as a company yeah so we were rent feather at the beginning because we 作为一家公司，是的，所以我们一开始就租羽毛，因为我们 00:14 00:14 assumed that rental was the correct solution yeah that ownership was the 假设租赁是正确的解决方案是的，所有权是 biggest problem which in fact is true that people don't necessarily want to 最大的问题实际上是人们不一定想要 commit upfront yeah but it's not that they should never own 预先承诺是的，但这并不是说他们永远不应该拥有 something it's that you shouldn't commit upfront yeah you shouldn't commit to 有些事你不应该预先承诺 是的，你不应该承诺 ownership today because you don't know what's gonna happen in your constantly 今天拥有所有权，因为你不知道你不断地会发生什么 changing life you know you just moved to New York yep you are in a relationship 改变生活 你知道你刚刚搬到纽约 是的，你正在恋爱中 yep anything could happen I mean I am NOT gonna would that that goes quite 是的，任何事情都有可能发生，我的意思是我不会希望事情会这样顺利 well for you yeah and you might think that this apartment is perfect for you 非常适合您 是的，您可能会认为这套公寓非常适合您 guys for the next year two years five years mmm 伙计们明年两年五年嗯 you may hate the neighborhood though and 不过你可能讨厌这个街区 move to a different neighborhood because you like this new neighborhood and so 搬到另一个社区，因为您喜欢这个新社区，所以 you're gonna have to move so point being committing to ownership of things 你将不得不搬家，所以要承诺对事物的所有权 upfront is what is what we're really addressing we're saying instead of 前面是我们真正要解决的问题，而不是我们所说的 committing just pay monthly have access to it your your monthly payments on your 承诺每月付款即可使用您的每月付款 00:15 00:15 furniture go towards owning the items you never pay more than the retail price 家具倾向于拥有您从未支付超过零售价的物品 of that item mm-hmm but if you don't want to own it you can 该物品的嗯嗯，但如果你不想拥有它，你可以 return it at any point so if the evolution of the company went from 随时归还，这样如果公司的发展从 rental definitely don't own it's wrong to own too 出租肯定不属于自己，拥有也有错 hey why don't you want to just make the choice later and so we evolved the the 嘿，你为什么不想稍后再做选择，所以我们进化了 way we communicate that to people from a rental company to a subscription right 我们向人们传达这一点的方式，从租赁公司到订阅权 so you kind of just defer the choice yeah and so how did that become obvious 所以你只是推迟了选择 是的，所以这是怎么变得明显的 to you down the line were you doing like customer interviews like how'd you 对你来说，你在做客户访谈吗？ figure that out yeah I mean you have to talk to people you have to look them in 弄清楚这一点是的，我的意思是你必须与人交谈，你必须审视他们 the eye it's it's it's not enough typically to just do user interviews 眼睛是这样的，通常仅仅进行用户访谈是不够的 over the phone video is helpful you can meet people in person 通过电话视频很有帮助，您可以亲自与人见面 or like I did do the deliveries yeah and see the people who are using your 或者就像我确实送货过一样，看看那些正在使用你的产品的人 product see the living situation they're in and see the furniture that they're 产品看到他们所处的生活环境并看到他们使用的家具 00:16 00:16 choosing you get a lot more so that just going there asking a couple questions 选择你会得到更多，所以只要去那里问几个问题 them not necessarily knowing that I was the founder of the company yeah was 他们不一定知道我是公司的创始人是的 quite valuable okay interesting yeah cuz I always figured it was them I 非常有价值，好吧，有趣，是的，因为我一直认为是他们 mean because I met you right before you did your interview right and I always 意思是因为我在你面试之前就遇见了你，而且我总是 figured that furniture was an expression of self and it doesn't seem to be for a 认为家具是自我的表达，而不是为了 lot of I mean some elements are but like can you just walk me through how you 很多，我的意思是有些元素是，但你能告诉我你是如何做的吗？ realize that cuz I figured yeah that was like core to someone's apartment in 意识到这一点，因为我想是的，这就像某人公寓的核心 their life you know what you might you might think that and to some degree this 他们的生活你知道你可能会怎么想，在某种程度上这 style of the thing is but not necessarily the caller yeah so furniture 东西的风格但不一定是来电者是的所以家具 the overland majority of people purchase furniture and the overall majority of 大多数人在陆地上购买家具，而总体上大多数人购买家具 people purchase colors that will go well 人们购买合适的颜色 with the pops of color that they have in their art and their rugs and their 他们的艺术、地毯和他们的流行色彩 pillows and their the things that they got on their trip to Africa right or 枕头和他们在非洲之旅中得到的东西，或者 00:17 00:17 wherever they traveled and got a really cool thing yeah or from the store down 无论他们旅行到哪里，都得到了一件非常酷的东西，是的，或者是从商店买的 the street and so the furniture is like it's an expression of you it needs to be 街道，所以家具就像是你的表达，它需要如此 comfortable first and foremost it needs to fit whatever the aesthetic is of your 首先是舒适，它需要符合您的审美观 of your place and of your own personality yeah so some people like you 你的位置和你自己的个性是的，所以有些人喜欢你 know modern and some people like mid-century modern and they're quite 了解现代风格，有些人喜欢中世纪现代风格，他们很喜欢 different in aesthetic and it says a little bit about a person 审美不同，它说明了一个人的一些情况 but aside from that you don't actually really need to have so many different 但除此之外，你实际上并不需要有这么多不同的 colors and shapes and textures where that comes through is in that the little 颜色、形状和纹理的体现在于那一点点 accessories and all like yeah it was just really surprising to me because 配件之类的，是的，这对我来说真的很惊讶，因为 I've you know I browser said like two years ago and then a browser this 我知道我的浏览器在两年前说过，然后是这个浏览器 morning it's like oh this is very different yeah but also not like it's 早上就像哦，这是非常不同的，是的，但也不像它那样 not like infinite choice it's actually like told fairly curated totally and so 不像无限的选择，它实际上是完全精心策划的，所以 it's not all that different from your like MVP just a much more legit back-end 它与你的 MVP 并没有什么不同，只是有一个更合法的后端 00:18 00:18 it's like there's a lot in the backend yeah yeah yeah so that's like there's 好像后端有很多东西是啊是啊所以就像有 something I want to talk about - so you're in multiple markets and you're 我想谈谈 - 所以你处于多个市场并且你 also dealing with physical products what is it would have been the key takeaways 还涉及实体产品，关键要点是什么 scaling something where you're delivering real things to people like 扩大规模，向人们提供真实的东西，例如 there's two important points to mention first is you have to respect logistics 首先有两点要提，你必须尊重物流 and respect operationally intensive businesses and you know I think there's 并尊重运营密集型企业，你知道我认为有 been a lot of venture backed companies that have very that have very high 很多风险投资支持的公司都拥有非常高的水平 demand that should exist today but they may be ran too quickly mm-hmm and didn't 今天应该存在的需求，但它们可能运行得太快了，嗯，并没有 necessarily respect the logistics or yeah or the complexity of building and 必须尊重物流或建筑的复杂性 operational intensive business and in order to do this effectively you just 运营密集型业务，为了有效地做到这一点，您只需 you just need to step back and respect it I think the other the other point is 你只需要退后一步并尊重它我认为另一点是 00:19 00:19 for a for a business that relies on software on people on unique inventory 对于依赖软件的企业 对于拥有独特库存的人员 management systems on a complex reverse logistics process you have to heavily 复杂的逆向物流流程中的管理系统，您必须大量 rely on software it's fundamentally a data problem that we're solving on the 依赖软件，这从根本上来说是我们正在解决的数据问题 backend in the software that we've created over the last few years allows 我们过去几年创建的软件后端允许 us to effectively deliver furniture to people's homes you know I think from the 我们能够有效地将家具运送到人们的家中，我认为 outside you can look at a company like in saying hey well I mean in the early 在外面，你可以看看一家公司，就像说“嘿，好吧，我的意思是在早期” days didn't you and your TaskRabbit just throw the furniture in the back of a 你和你的TaskRabbit 没有把家具扔到汽车后面吗？ truck and delivered to people's houses and yes that's true but those are 卡车并运送到人们的家中，是的，这是事实，但那些是 probably negative margins those are negative margins those are a proof of 可能是负利润那些是负利润那些是证明 concept those were yeah we weren't optimizing our routes efficiently we 概念是的，我们没有有效地优化我们的路线 00:20 00:20 didn't know how much revenue each product has had generated we didn't know 不知道每种产品产生了多少收入我们不知道 which product categories were doing well or not doing well yeah we didn't have 哪些产品类别表现良好或表现不佳，是的，我们没有 the ability to have route optimization already actually yeah there's just so 已经有能力进行路线优化了，是的，就是这样 much that that you need to build on the back and so how much of your your stack 您需要在背面构建多少内容以及您的堆栈有多少 at this point like several years in is yours versus third parties almost all of 在这一点上，就像几年前你与第三方几乎所有的 it is ours really okay yeah it doesn't the the the software that our business 这是我们的，好吧，是的，它不是我们业务的软件 needs doesn't exist off the shelf it's like like Shopify did and as the front 需求并不存在现成的，就像 Shopify 那样，就像前面那样 end template like this furniture company did to help me get the thing off and in 像这家家具公司那样的最终模板帮助我把东西取下和放进去 does that go all the way down like for instance like warehouse yours truck 是不是像你的卡车仓库一样一直向下 scores all the way down employees full-time employees delivering furniture 分数一路下滑 员工 全职员工 运送家具 almost all yes okay now how many markets are you in we're in three okay so new 几乎全部是的好吧现在你有多少个市场我们在三个好吧所以很新 00:21 00:21 york SF and LA no okay why not just dominating New York first good question 纽约旧金山和洛杉矶不行，为什么不直接统治纽约第一个好问题 I think I was so I got into I see I was just me yet a company we flew out to San 我想我是这样的，所以我进入了我看到我只是我，但我们飞往圣的公司 Francisco we hired our first employee and who stayed in New York and then I 弗朗西斯科 我们雇佣了第一位员工，他留在了纽约，然后我 said you know what I'm in San Francisco there's a big opportunity to service a 说你知道我在旧金山有一个很好的机会为 lot of the people who are NYC and they'll be a very good use case for us 很多纽约人，他们对我们来说是一个非常好的用例 to test and learn that is just there right off the bat so why not effectively 测试并了解它就在那里，所以为什么不有效地 open that market with very low overhead so I did that you know it was a I think 以非常低的管理费用打开那个市场，所以我做到了，你知道这是一个我认为 it was a good move ultimately we've learned a whole lot and 这是一个很好的举动，最终我们学到了很多东西 00:22 00:22 it's a market that's that does very well for us so yeah so just try well because 这是一个对我们来说非常有利的市场，所以是的，所以要好好尝试，因为 like with an Operations heavy business I 就像运营重的业务一样 think you could make an argument for the other side quite easily right like we 我认为你可以像我们一样轻松地为对方辩护 scale too fast we want to own the whole stack we up yeah and like went to 规模太快了，我们想拥有整个堆栈，我们是的，喜欢去 San Francisco yeah and it was total mistake so in terms of learnings for you 旧金山是的，这完全是错误的，所以就你的学习而言 guys how similar are these markets that's a great so we this was two years 伙计们，这些市场多么相似，这太棒了，所以我们这两年了 ago yeah I flew to San Francisco with my 是的，我和我的朋友一起飞往旧金山 suitcase yeah go to I see and had nobody on the ground there and decided to open 手提箱是的，去我看到，地上没有人，所以决定打开 that market effectively with no one on the ground there fast forward to today 那个市场实际上没有人在场，快进到今天 two years later we've only launched one more market to your point it's there's 两年后，我们只又推出了一个市场，就你的观点而言，那就是 one plenty of room to scale within the markets that were in - it's a logistical 在当时的市场中有足够的扩展空间 - 这是一个物流 II complex business and we wanted to make sure that we had that honed in in II 复杂的业务，我们希望确保我们已经磨练了这一点 the markets that we were in mm-hmm and we also felt it was really important for 我们所处的市场，嗯，我们也觉得这对于 00:23 00:23 us to launch in new market so that we could effectively have a new market 我们将推出新市场，以便我们能够有效地拥有新市场 playbook that we had been testing and iterating over time and then launching 我们一直在测试和迭代然后发布的剧本 and so now that we're in three markets launch we launched LA back in May um it 现在我们已经在三个市场推出了，我们早在五月份就在洛杉矶推出了 we have we have a very healthy playbook for growth okay so now you've raised a 我们有一个非常健康的增长手册，所以现在你已经筹集了一个 bunch of money you've scaled so companying a pretty substantial size for 你已经攒了一大笔钱，所以准备了相当大的规模 other founders who are doing an Operations heavy business how would you 其他从事运营业务的创始人您会如何 order the employees that you hire depends on who you are and what you're good at 对您雇用的员工进行排序取决于您是谁以及您擅长什么 look I think is really the first place to start okay so for me I know I'm good 看起来，我认为这确实是第一个开始的地方，所以对我来说，我知道我很好 at selling I'm good at operations I'm good at building I'm good at 擅长销售 我擅长运营 我擅长建设 我擅长 understanding the customer and I'm good at product 了解客户并且我擅长产品 00:24 00:24 early on we brought on someone to our team who was a very good balance to me 早期我们为我们的团队引进了一个对我来说非常好的平衡者 didn't know it at the time but but then this person sprouted into becoming the 当时并不知道，但后来这个人就成长为 CEO of the company quite quickly after bringing them on in a very different 在让他们以一种截然不同的方式上任后，公司的首席执行官很快就出任了 role and knowing that this person was just incredible the things that I was 角色并知道这个人与我一样令人难以置信 less incredible that it was a very important place for me to put this 不太令人难以置信的是，这对我来说是一个非常重要的地方 person I I was also a solo founder yeah so I wasn't able to you know create the 我也是一个独立创始人是的，所以我无法创建 perfect founding team with you know the best like you know all the all the 完美的创始团队，您最了解，就像您了解所有 things I don't have yeah it was just me in the early days now I brought on some 我没有的东西是的，早期只有我现在我带来了一些 amazing and talented people in the early days are now CTO who joined me out in 早期那些出色而有才华的人现在都是 CTO，他们加入了我的行列 San Francisco for the summer and I needed somebody to help build and 旧金山的夏天，我需要有人帮助建造和 00:25 00:25 iterate on the product that I had very terribly put together with my my 迭代我和我的朋友一起非常糟糕地组合在一起的产品 engineer overseas but arguably that's not the most important part of your 海外工程师，但可以说这不是你最重要的部分 business especially in the early days right I would agree 业务尤其是在早期，我同意 okay yeah but all the back-end infrastructure to power the company was 好的，是的，但是为公司提供动力的所有后端基础设施都是 incredibly important as you get start getting to even a moderate level of 当您开始达到中等水平时，这一点非常重要 scale and complexity in this business which gets more complex every single 这项业务的规模和复杂性变得越来越复杂 month yeah you need very critical pieces of software in place to make all that 是的，你需要非常关键的软件来实现这一切 happen yeah totally so what else has been I don't know how else but it like 是的，完全发生了，所以还有什么我不知道还有什么，但它就像 unexpected as you've scaled this company like you said you really like product 出乎意料的是，你已经扩大了这家公司的规模，就像你说的你真的很喜欢产品一样 yet now you're managing all these people yeah how's that going yeah yeah I think 但现在你正在管理所有这些人 是的 怎么样 是的 是的 我想 I think there's a there's a balance of having to continue to learn on the job 我认为必须在工作中继续学习之间保持平衡 00:26 00:26 all the things that you were not necessarily good at or things you didn't 所有你不一定擅长或不擅长的事情 even know at all to get better at those things while also leaning into the place 甚至知道如何在这些事情上做得更好，同时也倾向于这个地方 that you are most comfortable and do the best work it's it's easier said than 你感觉最舒服，工作做得最好，这比说起来容易 done yeah you're getting old from both ends 完成了，是的，你从两端都变老了 so my role now has it is still somewhat like difficult to understand a lot of 所以我现在的角色还是有点难以理解很多 what I do is I'm sort of like the snow plow out in front of a line of cars 我所做的就是像一排汽车前面的扫雪机 getting all the snow off the road and saying okay cool this is a good path 把路上的雪都清除掉，然后说，好吧，酷，这是一条好路 let's let's go down this path okay while also having to look back and be like 让我们沿着这条路走吧，好吧，同时也必须回顾过去，就像 alright let me work with all of our team leads Department leads to help answer 好吧，让我和我们所有团队领导一起部门领导来帮助回答 questions and provide vision based on what I've seen out in front two totally 提出问题并根据我在前两篇文章中所看到的内容提供愿景 00:27 00:27 different skill sets yeah but you you either have to lean into both of them 不同的技能是的，但是你要么必须同时掌握这两种技能 and get really good at both of them and continue doing both of them or at some 并真正擅长这两件事，并继续做这两件事或在某些方面 point pass the baton on to somebody who can do one or the other more effectively 将接力棒传递给能够更有效地完成其中一项或另一项任务的人 because you just have an infinite okay and a finite number of hours in the day 因为你一天中的时间是无限的和有限的 but how is that it I guess one of the most curious about is like how does that 但我想最好奇的事情之一就是那是怎么回事 make you feel as a founder you know who's someone who's like you've worked 让你觉得作为创始人你知道谁是像你一样工作过的人 on startups before before feather like you've been on small teams like hacking 在初创公司之前，就像你在黑客这样的小团队中一样 stuff together obviously you hacked the beginnings of feather together yeah like 显然，你把羽毛的开始部分拼凑在一起，是的，就像 you know what does feel like to have you 你知道拥有你是什么感觉 know this thing that you wanted to exist 知道你想要存在的这个东西 like you will it into the world and then it completely changes in terms of what 就像你将它带入世界，然后它完全改变了 you actually do to today what's that experience been like for you yeah I mean 你今天实际上做了什么，那段经历对你来说是怎样的，我的意思是 I've loved every minute of it I've loved 我爱它的每一分钟 我爱它 the first two years of just grinding and growing the company and I think the 前两年只是磨练和发展公司，我认为 first couple years of a start-up is all about heart mission dedication and grit 初创公司的头几年最重要的是内心的使命奉献精神和毅力 00:28 00:28 and intensity mhm and once you start to hit product market fit you have to and 嗯，一旦你开始进入适合市场的产品，你就必须和 yours the company is starting to scale you really need to start focusing on 您的公司正在开始扩大规模，您确实需要开始关注 process on improvements in the way you lead and 改进你的领导方式的过程 improvements in the way you do everything and you know there are more things 改进你做每件事的方式，你知道还有更多的事情 happening on your team that need addressing you don't know what's going 您的团队中发生需要解决的问题，但您不知道发生了什么 on at the company so you need to be a bit more structured in how your meeting 在公司，所以你需要更有条理地安排你的会议 with team leads and providing them value and also giving opinions and so yeah 与团队领导一起为他们提供价值并提供意见，所以是的 it's we're writing out a very interesting shift in that in that in 我们正在写出一个非常有趣的转变 that trajectory of the company where we're sort of building process for scale 我们正在建立规模化流程的公司的发展轨迹 while also like shedding all of the heart the the like just grit and get it 同时也喜欢放弃所有的心，就像勇敢地得到它 00:29 00:29 done until it's done right ality yeah kind of that like shitty buggy code that 直到完成为止，是的，有点像糟糕的错误代码 you write in the beginning you get it done no it has to be functional and 你一开始就写了，你就完成了，它必须是功能性的， worked well yeah interesting ok so in terms of scaling the company management 运作良好，是的，有趣，好的，所以在扩大公司管理方面 wise has any advice or any learnings you've picked up along the way I've been 明智的人有什么建议或者你在我的道路上学到的东西吗？ completely counterintuitive that you would be willing to share yeah I mean at 完全违反直觉，你会愿意分享是的，我的意思是 least in there earlier it is you know it's really important to focus or to be 至少在早些时候你知道集中注意力或保持专注非常重要 very focused on a particular thing and drive towards whatever that goal is 非常专注于某一特定事物并努力实现该目标 mm-hmm but at the same time in the early days you need to be seeding as many 嗯嗯，但同时在早期你需要播种尽可能多的种子 opportunities as possible so that you can hope that one of those 10-20-30 尽可能的机会，这样你就可以希望这些 10-20-30 之一 seeds you put out into the world or a few of those 10-20-30 seeds you put out 您向世界投放的种子或您投放的 10-20-30 颗种子中的一些 into the world will sprout and become an opportunity so for example when it was 进入这个世界将会发芽并成为一个机会，例如当它是 00:30 00:30 just me prior to getting to Y Combinator I I wanted to like as mentioned earlier 在进入 Y Combinator 之前，只有我一个人，正如前面提到的，我想喜欢 can meet with some people in the industry to get their take on this as an 可以与一些业内人士会面，了解他们对此的看法 opportunity and I ended up cold emailing the CEO of West Elm it's one of the 机会，我最终给 West Elm 的首席执行官发了冷邮件，这是其中之一 people he got back to me right away it was like oh this is fantastic I love 他立即回复我的人就像哦，这太棒了我爱 this do you want to come in and meet I was like whoa 你想进来见见吗？我当时就想哇哦 yeah great yeah and after two meetings with him he said this is incredible 是的，很棒，是的，在与他两次会面后，他说这太不可思议了 we'd love to partner with you I don't know you know how many millions in 我们很乐意与您合作 我不知道您知道有多少百万 revenue you guys are doing or how many people you have in your team I was yeah 你们正在做的收入或者你们团队中有多少人我是的 yeah no word but you were great weird it's going real well we probably had you 是的，没有任何消息，但你很棒，很奇怪，一切进展顺利，我们可能有你 know ten orders at the time yeah but because I planted all of those seeds it 当时知道十个订单是的，但因为我种下了所有这些种子 got me into the position where I was able to get feedback from the industry 让我能够从行业获得反馈 that said yes this is a good opportunity 是的，这是一个好机会 00:31 00:31 feedback from customers that said yes is a good opportunity yeah the day I left 客户的反馈说是的，是一个很好的机会，是的，我离开的那天 the West Elm meeting I said okay now is the point where I believe that this come 我说好的西榆树会议现在正是我相信这一点即将到来的时刻 I had conviction I believe this company could exist should exist and I really 我坚信我相信这家公司可以存在应该存在而且我真的 want to pursue this so I went online and I looked at applications to various 想要追求这个，所以我上网查看了各种应用程序 startup accelerators and the first one I 启动加速器和第一个我 went to was Y Combinator and as it turns out the deadline was that day not 去了 Y Combinator，事实证明截止日期不是那天 kidding and I took that as a sign to sit 开玩笑，我以为这是坐下的信号 down at a cafe I was actually at a pizza shop and as tremendously sick and fire 在一家咖啡馆，我实际上是在一家披萨店，病得很重，着火了 out an application but it wouldn't it wasn't it wasn't it wouldn't have 出了一个应用程序，但它不会，它不会，它不会，它不会 happened if I hadn't spread a bunch of seeds in different places that could 如果我没有在不同的地方传播一堆种子，就会发生这样的事情 00:32 00:32 randomly turn into opportunities or luck that I could then grab on to and 随机地变成我可以抓住的机会或运气 continue going so just to be specific there because I think that's potentially 继续下去，只是具体一点，因为我认为这有可能 dangerous advice like it is counterintuitive advice but I just want 危险的建议，就像违反直觉的建议，但我只是想要 you to clarify it like how much energy did you put into planting each of those 你要澄清一下，比如你在种植这些植物时投入了多少精力 seeds because I know a lot of people like half-ass dirty things and do nothing 种子，因为我知道很多人喜欢半途而废的脏东西，但什么也不做 because they have fast all that stuff so you have to be focused on what you're 因为他们拥有所有这些东西，所以你必须专注于你正在做的事情 seeding so you have to be clear and understand what the intention is there 播种，所以你必须清楚并理解其意图是什么 they should be very high risk but high reward okay and assume that like a seed 他们应该具有很高的风险，但回报也很高，并假设像种子一样 investor for example you know you know only one or two of the two 例如，投资者，您知道您只知道两者中的一两个 we'll ever even come to fruition and if they do then magic right and so if you 我们甚至会实现，如果他们做到了，那么魔法就对了，所以如果你 see all of those different things with some of your time not all of your time 用你的一些时间而不是全部时间来看到所有这些不同的东西 yep to be clear it's it can it can produce something very magical in the 是的，要明确的是，它可以在其中产生一些非常神奇的东西 form of opportunities or or luck yeah well I think what's cool about feather 机会或运气的形式是的，我认为羽毛有什么酷的 00:33 00:33 is like it's basically the product you imagined in the beginning is basically 基本上就是你一开始想象的产品 this is it yeah yeah with tweaks along the way yeah getting to know people 就是这样 是的 是的 一路上有一些调整 是的 认识人 understanding what resonates with them you know how to how to message people 了解什么能引起他们的共鸣，你知道如何向人们传达信息 and what they truly care about mm-hmm but largely it is very similar to the 以及他们真正关心的是什么，但很大程度上与 way we conceived of it you know and in terms of interacting with industry in 你知道我们的构想方式以及与行业互动方面 the beginning I think that's also counterintuitive I know a lot of people 一开始我觉得这也是违反直觉的 我认识很多人 who would advise you can probably not do 谁会建议你可能不能做 that because they're gonna say no to you did you get a lot of nose or did you 因为他们会对你说不 你有很多鼻子吗？ like have to learn to tweak your pitch to get them to say yes like how did how 就像必须学会调整你的音调才能让他们说“是”，就像如何 did that process go down just a bunch of non responses which is very typical and 这个过程是否只是一堆不回复，这是非常典型的并且 then most of the people I talked to really thought it was a great idea hmm 然后我交谈过的大多数人都认为这是个好主意，嗯 which you know you normally hear that like people don't really get the best 你知道你通常会听到人们并没有真正得到最好的 00:34 00:34 ideas so but it seems to be working and people are very happy with it and were 想法如此，但它似乎正在发挥作用，人们对此非常满意，并且 you concerned that people were gonna try and copy you immediately like Oh west 你担心人们会像 Oh west 一样立即尝试模仿你 domes gonna grab it and like do that not at all okay no I mean understanding the 圆顶会抓住它，就像那样做，完全不行，不，我的意思是理解 level of complexity of our business yeah and how different it is from everything 我们业务的复杂程度是的，它与其他事物有何不同 that exists in the market your software needs the delivery and last-mile 市场上存在您的软件需要交付和最后一英里 logistics needs that you'd need to operate this business at scale you know 您知道大规模经营该业务所需的物流需求 I never never felt worried that a big company would copy us and to this day no 我从来没有担心过大公司会抄袭我们，直到今天也没有 large company has even remotely copied us only only small upstarts people who 大公司甚至远程复制了我们只有小暴发户的人 saw us and decided to do yeah same deal yeah okay so it is now 看到我们并决定做同样的交易是的，所以现在就是了 August we're about to have demo day next week yeah it's super exciting you're 八月，我们下周即将举行演示日，是的，这真是太令人兴奋了 00:35 00:35 going I am going I will be there I'm flying out in a couple days so for the 去 我要去 我会在那里 我几天后就要飞出去 所以 founders in the batch I know it's a tough transition to go from this like 我知道从这批创始人中走出来是一个艰难的转变 really cool group dynamic tons of pressure like with your peers a clear 非常酷的团体充满活力的压力就像你的同龄人一样清晰 goal in sight they're gonna raise money most of them 目标就在眼前 他们大部分人都会筹集资金 what is your advice to the founders who you know raise money it all like you 你对那些你认识的像你一样筹集资金的创始人有什么建议 know a month from now demo day is over and then they're just kind of on their 知道一个月后演示日就结束了，然后他们就开始了他们的工作 own like how do you prepare yourself for 自己喜欢你如何准备 that totally you know I think especially within the first year after YC you 你完全知道我认为尤其是在 YC 之后的第一年你 should keep that exact same mentality going which is set weekly goals maybe 也许应该保持与每周设定的目标完全相同的心态 monthly goals we set weekly goals and made sure we stuck to those weekly goals 每月目标 我们设定每周目标并确保我们坚持这些每周目标 at all costs that showed growth of business that showed that this was a 不惜一切代价表明业务增长表明这是一个 clear opportunity and if we weren't hitting our goal we we as in our CTO and 明确的机会，如果我们没有实现我们的目标，我们作为首席技术官 I would stop what we were doing and go figure out how we're gonna head our 我会停下我们正在做的事情，去弄清楚我们将如何领导我们的事业 00:36 00:36 seven percent a week over a week growth goal mm-hmm and every single week 每周 7% 的增长目标，以及每周的增长目标 but one summer we hit it it'd be like at the expense of building the software to 但有一年夏天我们实现了这一目标，这就像以牺牲构建软件为代价 power the business but it proved that there was latent demand and that we were 为业务提供动力，但事实证明存在潜在需求，而且我们 able to go find it so post YC immediately posted YC definitely reset 能够找到它，所以发布 YC 立即发布 YC 肯定会重置 it's it's it's a little like coming down 是的，是的，有点像下来了 from a high I think where you're at demo 从高处看，我认为你在演示中 day and there's so many people there and they're all there to see you and all of 那天，那里有很多人，他们都是来看你和所有人的 your batch mates and there's just so much buzz and then imagine you raised 你的批次伙伴，有太多的嗡嗡声，然后想象你长大了 the seed round that you were looking for 您正在寻找的种子轮 and you're off to the races maybe you're 你要去参加比赛了也许你是 in San Francisco or like us we flew back to New York and then there was a calm 在旧金山或者像我们一样，我们飞回纽约，然后就平静了 after the storm you know we sat there you're like all 暴风雨过后你知道我们坐在那里你就像所有人一样 right okay well the energy is what it is in our office it's just us you 好吧，好吧，我们办公室就是这样的能量，只有我们和你 00:37 00:37 there's no longer this nurturing support system around us or in the real world 我们周围或现实世界中不再有这种培育支持系统 coincidentally I actually gave my graduation speech on this on on entering 巧合的是，我在入学时就此事发表了毕业演讲 the real world and how different it is from being in the like support system 现实世界以及它与类似支持系统有何不同 and it's like actually the same thing as college except like a like a condensed 这实际上和大学是一样的，除了像一个浓缩的 college like condensed Startup College yeah get some money yeah it's the 大学就像浓缩的创业学院是的，得到一些钱是的，这就是 opposite of college it's like Lanza way better than College 与大学相反，兰扎比大学好得多 yeah and and that first month was I didn't feel the blues a little bit even 是的，第一个月我什至没有感到忧郁 though you might have you know we raised three three and a half million dollars 尽管你可能知道我们筹集了三百万美元 of funding from great investors and had tons of support it's just a little felt 来自伟大投资者的资金和大量的支持，只是有点感觉 a little slow or quiet yeah take that time to just reflect and reset and set 有点慢或安静 是的，花点时间反思、重置和设置 your strategy for your next six months year that's my best advice it's awesome 你未来六个月的策略 这是我最好的建议 太棒了 00:38 00:38 all right man thanks so much yeah you bet thanks for having me you 好吧，伙计，非常感谢，是的，谢谢你邀请我