00:00 00:00 today we have harry zhang co-founder of lob lob makes api's for companies to 今天我们有 lob 联合创始人 Harry zhang 为公司制作 API send letters and postcards so kevin has a question for you I'm trying to think 寄信和明信片，凯文有个问题要问你，我正在想 back to when you guys applied to YC you you didn't have almost anything like I 回到你们申请 YC 的时候，你们几乎没有像我这样的东西 would say it was fairly embarrassing yes you could say that I mean honestly we 会说这相当尴尬是的你可以说我的意思是说实话我们 were scrambling weeks before the interview they try to come up with 在面试前几周他们试图想出一个方案 something that we thought was worthwhile for demoing but I think the important 我们认为值得演示的东西，但我认为重要的是 thing when you're starting you know a company and for us is thinking about the 当你开始时，你了解一家公司，对我们来说，就是考虑 problem that you're working on Versalles 你在凡尔赛工作的问题 like having a bunch of stuff and I think for us like we had done sort of the due 就像拥有一堆东西，我认为对我们来说，就像我们做了一些应有的事情一样 diligence beforehand we talked to a lot of customers we had a good sense for 事前尽职调查，我们与很多我们有良好判断力的客户进行了交谈 what the core problems are but we didn't have like the exact product just yet 核心问题是什么，但我们还没有确切的产品 what was that MVP when you guys applied to I say at the time you know I think 你们申请时那个 MVP 是什么？我当时说，我想 back and it's pretty funny just thinking about this we literally had an API to 回来想想，这很有趣，我们确实有一个 API 可以 took whatever you put into it and spit it right out to you and that's that was 把你放进去的东西都拿出来然后直接吐给你，就是这样 00:01 00:01 our MVP and we were secretly hoping it just mirrored the response back yeah 我们的 MVP，我们暗自希望它能反映我们的反应是的 it's just merely response back and we were just sort of hoping that we 这只是回应，我们只是希望我们 wouldn't have to demo because honestly we hadn't built a lot of product yet we 不必演示，因为老实说我们还没有构建很多产品 didn't know what we wanted to build and you know we've always operated from the 不知道我们想要建造什么，你知道我们一直都是从 valve he's like we want customers to pay us for something before we actually go Valve 他就像我们希望顾客在我们实际走之前付钱给我们一样 and do it what's interesting to me as someone who's focusing on design and 作为一个专注于设计和设计的人，做我感兴趣的事情 interfaces at YC is that I kind of really love API companies because like I YC 的接口是我真的很喜欢 API 公司，因为就像我一样 think a lot of people think of it as like oh it has no sort of interface but 我想很多人都认为它没有任何界面，但是 to me the interfaces is just documentation it's like very pure and so 对我来说，接口只是文档，它非常纯粹，所以 I'm always interested in when I look at an API a company is looking at oh what 当我查看 API 时，我总是对公司正在查看的 API 感兴趣 are they doing here to say this is how we want to both community around this 他们来这里是为了说这就是我们希望社区围绕这个问题的方式 because like what they're trying to build out is that this is something that 因为就像他们试图构建的那样 people who build stuff want to use and so what are the ways they're going to 建造东西的人想要使用，那么他们将采取什么方式 communicate that this will allow them to do something sort of cool or solve a 传达这样的信息：这将使他们能够做一些很酷的事情或解决一个问题 00:02 00:02 problem etc and I feel like you learn a lot about people's thought processes and 问题等，我觉得你学到了很多关于人们思维过程的知识 also how good someone is as an engineer programmer by like how thoughtful that 一个人作为一名工程师程序员有多优秀，比如他有多周到 documentation is I think stripe is a classic example of this but for you guys 文档是我认为条纹是一个典型的例子，但对于你们来说 I remember it's like you had the basics down but it 我记得好像你已经掌握了基础知识，但它 was clear that you guys knew enough to be considered to anyone that would want 很明显，你们知道的足够多，可以被考虑给任何想要的人 him to be using it even if it was their first time ever writing any API call 他会使用它，即使这是他们第一次编写任何 API 调用 yeah yeah that's that for me right I mean I think documentation to this day 是的，这对我来说就是这样，我的意思是我认为至今为止的文档 is still like the number one thing and with ink we take a point in pride and 仍然是第一件事，通过墨水，我们感到自豪和 making sure that our documentation is something that every single developers 确保我们的文档适合每个开发人员 want to use and I see is friction like when your core product is an API 想要使用，我发现摩擦就像你的核心产品是 API 一样 you better have like the best documentation on the planet and so what 你最好拥有世界上最好的文档，那又怎样 was the insight you guys had early on that made you convinced that you wanted 你们早年的洞察力让你们确信自己想要 to follow this path yeah that's a good question so I actually started from like 沿着这条路走是的，这是一个很好的问题，所以我实际上是从这样开始的 the problem and it started from my time at Microsoft so immediately I did not 这个问题是从我在微软的时候开始的，所以我立即没有 think I was gonna end up in a business that's focused on mail nor did I think 我认为我最终会进入一家专注于邮件的行业，我也没想到 00:03 00:03 that a job at Microsoft at a company that's 100% tech based one of the main 微软的工作是一家 100% 技术型公司的主要工作之一 things I was gonna be working on was actually a direct mail campaign so sort 我要做的事情实际上是直邮活动，所以排序 of like how we initially got started the problem and actually started from a 就像我们最初是如何开始解决这个问题的，实际上是从 place of complaining I was driving back from a ski trip with my co-founder Lior 我和联合创始人 Lior 滑雪旅行回来时抱怨的地方 and I was complaining to him about this project that I was working on at 我向他抱怨我正在做的这个项目 Microsoft and essentially what we were doing is we had come up with the system 微软和我们所做的基本上就是我们开发了这个系统 for sending out these like very custom training materials and invites like a 用于发送诸如非常定制的培训材料和邀请之类的内容 webinar online but for a number of different reasons we weren't allowed to 在线网络研讨会，但由于多种不同原因，我们不被允许 do that using email and telesales was too expensive so the thing I was doing 使用电子邮件和电话销售来做到这一点太昂贵了，所以我正在做的事情 was actually building a direct mail program that was one of the most 实际上正在构建一个直邮程序，这是最重要的程序之一 effective things that we've done to date and honestly it was a little out of you 迄今为止我们所做的有效的事情，说实话，你有点不合时宜 know we didn't have any other options but when it worked really well 知道我们没有任何其他选择，但当它效果很好时 I got a huge budget and was asked to sort of scale across a much bigger set 我的预算很大，并被要求在更大的场景中进行扩展 of customers and different use cases and more products and I thought that was 客户和不同的用例以及更多的产品，我认为这是 gonna be something that was easy but it turned out to be the bane of my 本来是一件很容易的事，但结果却成了我的祸根 existence for like the following three months in the early days like for YC 早期存在了大约三个月的时间，就像YC一样 00:04 00:04 what did the API do oh yeah the API just went into a database that API 做了什么，哦，是的，API 只是进入了数据库 you know literally I start off using my inkjet printer 你知道我从字面上开始使用我的喷墨打印机 you know we printed everything on my home printer out of my apartment 你知道我们在公寓外用家用打印机打印了所有内容 there hit a point where we were watching TV and stuffing like we had a sembly 有一段时间我们一边看电视一边吃东西，就像我们在聚会一样 line of like letters that we were stuffing ourselves and it sort of at 我们自己塞进去的一排类似的字母，有点像 that point we're like maybe we should go get a printer to help us with this 那时我们想也许我们应该去买一台打印机来帮助我们解决这个问题 problem what makes you feel confident you could just go try to sell to a 问题是什么让你有信心你可以尝试卖给一个 company or get someone to program against that even though it was like 公司或让某人针对它进行编程，即使它就像 connected to like your injector printer well like what gave you the confidence 连接到您的注射式打印机就像给您信心一样 is like I'll go in here and sell someone on this fake magic yeah that's I guess 就像我会进去把这个假魔法卖给某人是的，我猜是这样 like for us it was more just like a belief that this was like a real problem 对我们来说，这更像是一种信念，认为这是一个真正的问题 for people so when we told them about the problem that we're solving it really 对于人们来说，所以当我们告诉他们我们正在真正解决这个问题时 resonated with the customers that we were talking to and I remember like our 与我们交谈的客户产生了共鸣，我记得就像我们的 very first customer it's this guys named 第一个顾客就是这个人 00:05 00:05 William way last use-case I'd expect for mail he found us on our hacker news 威廉是我期望的最后一个用例，他在我们的黑客新闻中找到了我们 launch and he sent me a note saying hey like I want to use your guys's lighter 发射后他给我发了一张纸条，上面写着“嘿，我想用一下你们的打火机” product and can we chat I said okay well you know like tell me a little bit more 产品，我们可以聊天吗？我说好吧，你知道，请告诉我更多一点 about your business and sixteen year old kid awesome I looked him up I was like 关于你的生意，还有一个十六岁的孩子，太棒了，我查了他的资料，我当时想 very little information online but he actually ran one of the largest Team 网上的信息很少，但他实际上管理着最大的团队之一 Fortress 2 stores online and if you don't know what - Fortress 2 is do you Fortress 2 在线商店，如果您不知道什么 - Fortress 2 是您吗 know what that is one my favorite games perfect so one of the things that people 知道那是我最喜欢的游戏之一，所以这是人们最喜欢的游戏之一 like to do is they buy digital items online right and that's like a regular 他们喜欢做的是在线购买数字商品，这就像常规购买一样 thing because people don't want to go through all this time to like you know 因为人们不想经历这么久才喜欢你知道的 find like the right weapon or whatever that might look like so he did one of 找到合适的武器或任何看起来像的东西，所以他做了其中之一 the largest Team Fortress or shoes online and I was still super confused 最大的军团要塞或在线鞋子，我仍然非常困惑 I'm like why are you talking to me and just didn't know but it turns out he had 我想你为什么要和我说话，只是不知道，但事实证明他有 a problem which was every single time people would buy his items online he'd 一个问题是，每次人们在网上购买他的商品时，他都会 deliver it and give him like it you know 交付给他，就像你知道的那样 the item online but he had no proof that he actually gave them at his items so 该物品在网上，但他没有证据证明他确实在他的物品上给了他们，所以 00:06 00:06 what you had was a ridiculously high rate of fraud which was people would 欺诈率高得离谱，人们会认为 charge back and he will lose every single dispute because he couldn't show 退款，他将输掉每一场纠纷，因为他无法证明 that he actually sent anything so his solution to this problem was I'm also 他实际上发送了任何东西，所以他对这个问题的解决方案是我也是 just going to send him a letter in the mail with the coat and that serve that 只是要给他寄一封信和外套，这样就可以了 has proof but he had to do that himself and he hated that mmm that's something 有证据，但他必须自己做，他讨厌那个嗯，那是一件事 that we would have never like thought of out of the gate but I think it goes to 我们从来没想过要走出大门，但我认为这会 show right like you can always hang with his product but not always 表现得恰到好处，就像你可以随时使用他的产品，但并非总是如此 how'd he find you so he found us like online on Hacker News a Jamaican show HN 他是怎么找到你的，所以他在牙买加节目《黑客新闻》HN 上找到了我们 type thing that's great you did a show HN I think that's where I might still be 键入很棒的东西，你做了一个节目 HN 我想那是我可能仍然在的地方 around somewhere but that's sort of how you found us 在某个地方，但这就是您找到我们的方式 right and we basically said we have an API for sending letters and he was like 是的，我们基本上说我们有一个用于发送信件的 API，他就像 I have I have a problem like can you guys help me with this and then once you 我有一个问题，你们能帮我解决这个问题吗？ got past having 16 year olds as clients how do you how did you get the first 不再有 16 岁的客户作为你的客户，你是如何获得第一个客户的 like really top tier big client yeah I think you know for us that top tier 就像真正的顶级大客户一样，是的，我想你知道我们的顶级客户 00:07 00:07 clients it's a big insurance company that's currently in New York I would say 客户，我想说的是，这是一家目前位于纽约的大型保险公司 they're pretty tech for it can't tell you the name of that company but one of 他们的技术非常先进，因为它不能告诉你那家公司的名字，但可以告诉你其中之一 the things that's exciting that we found them was they had a problem and that 令人兴奋的是我们发现他们有一个问题 they didn't have compliance and security around they're assisting printers so 他们在协助打印机方面没有合规性和安全性，所以 this isn't the midst of like me as a sales rep literally sending like 这不是像我一样作为销售代表发送类似的信息 hundreds and thousands of emails to potential companies that thought could 成百上千封电子邮件发送给那些认为可以的潜在公司 be a fit and this one got a response back you know from the CEO he asked a 适合，这个人得到了回应，你知道首席执行官他问了一个问题 few sort of qualifying questions and punted me to you know the guy was 一些合格的问题，然后让我知道那家伙是 actually in charge using now they're a VP of data and they had a problem that 现在实际上负责使用他们是数据副总裁，他们遇到了一个问题 their printer they didn't have confidence they're printing you what 他们的打印机他们没有信心给你打印什么 like HIPAA was they didn't know what a BA was and they were essentially 就像 HIPAA 一样，他们不知道 BA 是什么，而且他们本质上是 reevaluating with technology they were using to work for print shop and that's 重新评估他们在印刷店工作时使用的技术，那就是 sort of where we entered and ultimately that become became one of our first 有点像我们进入的地方，最终成为我们的第一个 major like real customers and they're still client with us today it's just a 像真正的客户一样专业，他们今天仍然是我们的客户，这只是一个 00:08 00:08 cold email you sent out it was just a cold email how long would here's here's 您发出的冷电子邮件这只是一封冷电子邮件，这里还要多长时间？ a question can you remember like what was in that cold email like was it super 一个问题，你能记得那封冷冰冰的电子邮件中的内容吗？ short was it super long did you was it personalized etc it was definitely 短是不是超长是个性化吗等等这绝对是 personalized you know I I had a good idea of what type of mail that could be 个性化 你知道我很清楚可以发送什么类型的邮件 potentially sending and it was a shortcrust email like this is what we do 可能会发送，这是一封简短的电子邮件，就像我们所做的那样 here's how we're different and I think we can help you if your current problem 这就是我们的不同之处，我认为如果您当前遇到问题，我们可以帮助您 in these three ways right I think the key things in a cold email you really 我认为在这三种方式中，冷电子邮件中的关键内容是正确的 want to hit on like did you guys I was gonna say like where you clued in on the 我想像你们一样继续聊下去，我想说的是，就像你们在 HIPAA or not I did not know I was having a problem at that company I did we 无论是否有 HIPAA，我都不知道我在那家公司遇到了问题。 didn't know what like HIPAA was and this was sensitive information but like we 不知道 HIPAA 是什么，这是敏感信息，但就像我们一样 didn't know that that that they were looking mm-hmm so we got a little it was 不知道他们在看嗯嗯所以我们得到了一点 a little bit luck okay they were looking we didn't know about it we knew that 有点运气，好吧，他们在看，我们不知道，我们知道 they were sort of within the space that we're looking for but honestly in the 他们有点在我们正在寻找的空间内，但老实说在 early days not everyone's gonna be able to find you 早期并不是每个人都能找到你 and what's important especially in you know our business as like a you 尤其重要的是您像您一样了解我们的业务 00:09 00:09 b2b SAAS businesses you got to find the customers that believe in the method and b2b SAAS 企业，您必须找到相信该方法的客户，并且 the methodology and how you're building the product not just what you serve 方法论以及你如何构建产品而不仅仅是你所服务的内容 today but also the vision of what your product could become and that's where we 今天，还有您的产品未来的愿景，这就是我们的目标 found a lot of alignment you know with this company because they understood 发现您与这家公司有很多契合点，因为他们了解 exactly why building it as an API is valuable they're super technology 到底为什么将其构建为 API 很有价值，它们是超级技术 forward and while we didn't have every single capability and you did we could 前进，虽然我们没有每一项能力，而你做到了，但我们可以 cover the majority of what they want and 涵盖了他们想要的大部分内容 they knew that we would be able to scale with them as well mmm 他们知道我们也能够与他们一起扩展，嗯 and so what once you got there how did you start expanding that like the other 那么一旦你到达那里，你是如何开始像其他人一样扩展它的 top tier clients because it's all just cold email like the these are big 顶级客户，因为这只是冷冰冰的电子邮件，就像这些很大的电子邮件一样 contracts I imagine yeah these are definitely big contracts so you know 合同 我想是的，这些绝对是大合同，所以你知道 today our contracts are everything from light you know on a small sigh for our 今天，我们的合同包含了一切，您知道，我们的小叹息 main markets like 30,000 a year just to use 主要市场每年仅使用 30,000 个 LOB's api and we sell contracts up to like millions of year as well so there's LOB 的 api，我们也出售长达数百万年的合同，所以有 a big range but I think for us it there's a couple things it's a sort of a 范围很大，但我认为对我们来说，有几件事是 chicken-egg problem and that like you need a lighthouse customer to get other 先有鸡还是先有蛋的问题，就像你需要灯塔客户才能获得其他产品一样 big customers so giving them the first one is always the hardest and that's a 大客户，所以给他们第一个总是最难的，这是一个 00:10 00:10 combination it's just like combination of law hard work and really 结合起来就像法律、努力和真正的结合 understanding like your problem space and what you're solving once you've done 了解您的问题空间以及完成后要解决的问题 that and you've successfully done that for a customer it's much easier to take 并且您已经成功地为客户做到了这一点，这更容易接受 that exact same story to a similar customer and help them realize that 向类似的客户讲述完全相同的故事，并帮助他们意识到 value and you know by that point you should also understand sort of the 价值，你知道到那时你也应该理解 language of the customer you know in their industry what do they care about 您所了解的行业客户的语言 他们关心什么 what are the key problems that they have and when you have that insight it makes 他们遇到的关键问题是什么？当你有了这种洞察力时，就会发现 you much more credible as a potential vendor right how much time do you guys 作为潜在供应商，你们更可信，你们还有多少时间 spend researching before you like we chat to let's say you have one company 在我们聊天之前先花些时间进行研究，假设您有一家公司 you're like I really want to have their business what's the prep work that you 你就像我真的很想拥有他们的生意，你需要做什么准备工作 start doing who do you start contacting how long does it sort of take yeah I 开始做你开始联系谁需要多长时间是的我 mean there's a fair amount of prep work so you know for us it's it's starts from 意味着有相当多的准备工作，所以你知道我们从 just mapping out the organization right drawing a blueprint of like who are the 只是绘制出组织的蓝图，比如谁是谁 key stakeholders in the organs especially for larger companies 机构中的主要利益相关者，尤其是大公司 decisions aren't made by just one individual there are made am i different 决定不是由一个人做出的，而是由我做出的 00:11 00:11 folks and each different person may have a slightly different motivation we have 人们和每个不同的人可能有与我们略有不同的动机 work with our sales reps to figure out what is that motivation for each of 与我们的销售代表合作，找出每个人的动机是什么 those individual who are so they're the key contacts and what's the message 那些人，所以他们是关键联系人，信息是什么 that's going to resonate them so we'll typically start by having 这会引起他们的共鸣，所以我们通常会从 coal outreach these folks will also sort of combine it with a lot of our 这些人也会将其与我们的许多煤炭外展相结合 marketing tactics and that like they're gonna start seeing law pop up everywhere 营销策略就像他们会开始看到法律到处出现一样 right and ideally you know if they're not responsive to email will also look 正确，理想情况下，您知道如果他们不回复电子邮件也会查看 at what conferences they're gonna be attending so we can actually find these 他们将参加哪些会议，这样我们就能找到这些 folks in person so really it's sort of like a 人们亲自来，所以真的有点像 multi-pronged approach it's pretty rare and you shouldn't have expectation just 多管齐下的方法非常罕见，您不应该仅仅抱有期望 like I you know I send like you know ten emails I'm gonna get like eight 就像我，你知道我发送了十封电子邮件，我会收到八封 responses back that's that's not gonna happen it's a grind but that's part of 回复说那不会发生，这是一种磨难，但这是一部分 your job is to like work your way through that and figure out like who are 你的工作就是喜欢按照自己的方式工作并弄清楚谁是 the counts are gonna work and over time you're gonna get more and more accurate 计数会起作用，随着时间的推移，你会变得越来越准确 about understanding and motivation what resonates with people and like what 关于理解和激励什么能引起人们的共鸣并喜欢什么 people care about and you may find that like the person you thought was the 人们关心你，你可能会发现就像你认为的那个人一样 person who's gonna make decision might actually be someone totally different 做出决定的人实际上可能是完全不同的人 00:12 00:12 did you always knew know that this was going to be an enterprise company that 你是否一直都知道这将是一家企业公司 this would be what you'd focus on or was 这将是你关注的或曾经关注的 there like a lot of people will start an API coming in with like anybody could 很多人都会像任何人一样开始使用 API use this anybody should and so like how did you know where to focus and actually 任何人都应该使用这个，就像你如何知道要聚焦在哪里以及实际上 I'm kind of interested is like what is this wit and ap I imagine most of it as 我有点感兴趣的是这是什么机智和 ap 我想大部分是 enterprise usage but how much is also SMB how much is like consumers using it 企业使用率，但中小企业使用率有多少，消费者使用率有多少 yeah yeah absolutely so I'd say roughly about you know 15% or so of our business 是的，是的，绝对如此，我想说的是，您大约了解我们业务的 15% 左右 is still self-service customers today so it's a meaningful share of our revenue 今天仍然是自助服务客户，因此它在我们的收入中占有重要的份额 and that fluctuates based on how much our big customers do but like there's a 这会根据我们的大客户的行为而波动，但就像有一个 healthy self-service segment of folks that utilize our API and that's where we 使用我们 API 的健康自助服务部分，这就是我们的目标 started so for us like you know how we ended up focusing at Enterprise is 对我们来说，就像你知道的那样，我们最终是如何专注于 Enterprise 的 really sort of evaluation of like our market and it turns out like the market 确实有点像我们的市场的评估，结果就像市场一样 that we're in today the top you know 20 players send such an enormous amount of 我们今天处于领先地位，你知道 20 位玩家发送了如此大量的信息 mail that if you really want to capture the entire market you have to focus on 如果你真的想占领整个市场，你必须集中精力 how you gonna win those top couple folks 你怎样才能赢得那些顶级情侣的青睐 00:13 00:13 and what we realize is one of the things that's really nice about an API is that 我们意识到 API 的真正优点之一是 like you can essentially give those same capabilities to people who aren't 就像你基本上可以为那些没有能力的人提供同样的能力 executing a tech type of volume so in fact it's a focus for our business to 执行技术类型的数量，因此实际上这是我们业务的重点 Sinese enterprise customers but we know a lot of the features and functionality 中国企业客户，但我们了解很多特性和功能 that these guys have or are looking for are also things that smaller customers 这些人拥有或正在寻找的东西也是小客户所需要的 want but don't have access to because operating at that scale capacity you set 想要但无法访问，因为以您设置的规模容量运行 an API enables them to get access to that so you guys like graduated up to API 使他们能够访问该内容，因此你们喜欢升级到 enterprise that's right how long did that take we were still working on it 企业是对的，我们花了多长时间才完成它 now even today so really it's been a six-year journey 即使在今天，这确实是六年的旅程 for us I would say we signed our first few true like enterprise accounts you 对于我们来说，我想说我们签署了我们的第一个真正的企业帐户 know just two years ago so it took us almost four years ago yeah so there's a 就在两年前知道，所以我们几乎四年前就知道了，是的，所以有一个 while so one thing a lot of startups don't get right is pricing so when you 虽然很多初创公司没有做好的一件事是定价，所以当你 guys were working your way up to enterprise by the time you got that 当你得到它的时候，人们已经在努力进入企业了 first big client did you feel like you had your pricing locked down because of 第一个大客户您是否觉得您的定价已被锁定，因为 00:14 00:14 like if that was wrong it could have multiplied in a bad way quickly yeah 就像如果那是错误的，它可能会很快以一种糟糕的方式繁殖是的 definitely you know we're always evaluating our pricing to make sure we 您肯定知道我们一直在评估我们的定价以确保我们 have the right model we actually made some like a pretty big mistakes early on 拥有正确的模型，我们实际上在早期就犯了一些相当大的错误 as I came to the price and I think like you guys have probably all heard the 当我谈到价格时，我想你们可能都听说过 typical mistakes right it's like hey you know didn't price high enough like you 典型的错误，就像嘿，你知道没有像你一样定价足够高 know we didn't started talking about pricing too late for us it's the 知道我们开始谈论定价对我们来说还不算太晚 structure of pricing we actually learned a lot about and was a big motivating 我们实际上学到了很多定价结构，并且是一个很大的激励 factor in us changing our pricing model a couple years ago so we started off 几年前我们改变了定价模式，所以我们开始了 thinking very much like a traditional male provider or even someone who sells 思考方式非常像传统的男性提供者甚至销售者 like reservist this isn't AWS essentially you could buy lob and what 就像预备役军人一样，这本质上不是 AWS，你可以购买 lob 之类的 you were buying is you'd buy you know hundred thousand letters over the course 你买的是你会买你在课程中知道十万个字母 a year you pay for the hundred thousand letters you can use it whenever you want 一年您支付十万封信件的费用，您可以随时使用它 super logical very easy to understand and it worked for us for a while but the 超级合乎逻辑，非常容易理解，它对我们有用了一段时间，但是 problem we found was we went into larger customers they don't look at not every 我们发现的问题是我们进入了更大的客户，他们并没有关注每个客户 single budget is made equal so when you were selling you know hundred thousand 单一预算是相等的，所以当你卖的时候你知道十万 00:15 00:15 letters they're gonna evaluate us against a hundred thousand letters from 他们将根据十万封来信对我们进行评估 another drive mail provider and you know 另一个驱动器邮件提供商，你知道 our value is you know five cents of that letter is going to law right that's the 我们的价值是你知道这封信的五美分将受到法律的保护，这就是 value that we see in our technology but the problem is when you're talking to 我们在技术中看到了价值，但问题是当你与 customers who are used to pricing in a specific methodology they're comparing 习惯于以他们正在比较的特定方法定价的客户 us to like why are you five five cents marks months of everybody else and 我们喜欢为什么你比其他人贵五五美分 they're starting to do the math like how many more responses do I have to get 他们开始计算我还需要得到多少回复 what's the higher conversion that I need to see a result but in reality it's two different investments right there making a technology investment and the 不同的投资就在那里进行技术投资和 technology that we're providing them they're buying the male piece so one of 我们为他们提供的技术他们正在购买男性作品，所以其中之一 the big changes that we made that was really successful in helping shift the 我们所做的重大改变确实成功地帮助改变了 conversations to the right level of our customers was actually creating what we 与我们的客户进行适当级别的对话实际上创造了我们 call like a platform fee so essentially now our customers pay us you know twenty 打电话就像平台费用所以基本上现在我们的客户付给我们你知道二十 five thirty thousand dollars a year to use law and they get access to you know 每年五三万美元使用法律，他们可以接触到你知道 our de facto like mail pricing which is now competitive if not lower than every 我们事实上的邮件定价现在即使不低于其他定价，也具有竞争力 00:16 00:16 single they're offering so now we can focus the conversation it's like how do 他们提供单身，所以现在我们可以集中讨论，就像如何做 you value lobs technology is that worth twenty-five to thirty thousand and 你看重的吊球技术是价值二万五到三万的 setting up being a conversation about what is the cost of a mail piece and 建立一个关于邮件费用是多少的对话，以及 what's the conversion that we're looking 我们正在寻找什么转化 for I think it's important differentiate and associate the value that customers 因为我认为区分和关联客户的价值很重要 see in your technology with what they pay for versus something that could be a 看看你的技术与他们支付的费用相比，可能是 commoditized you know product in the market today 您知道当今市场上的商品化产品 now was that pricing model only an option given your maturity I think we 现在，考虑到您的成熟度，定价模型只是一个选择，我认为我们 could have started that model the reality is we just we just didn't know 本来可以开始这个模型，但现实是我们只是不知道 people were gonna think that way so it's 人们会这么想所以它是 hard to get everything right what helped you shift to that well we kept getting 很难把一切都做好，是什么帮助你转向我们不断得到的那种状态 feedback from customers right and we could tell that the way that they were 客户的反馈是正确的，我们可以看出他们的方式 modeling us was they would be trying to figure examples to apples comparison 为我们建模，他们会尝试举一些例子来与苹果进行比较 yeah listen it wasn't a big deal apples comparison that is out there right and 是的，听着，这没什么大不了的，苹果的比较就在那里， the part that was challenging just like they were totally okay of like paying 具有挑战性的部分就像他们完全可以支付一样 with like another agency to help manage their mail sense right but that's not 像另一个机构一样帮助他们正确管理邮件，但事实并非如此 pulling out of the same budget and essentially part of what we offer is 退出相同的预算，我们提供的基本上是 00:17 00:17 like we're doing that forward them but they were looking at our mail piece 就像我们正在转发他们一样，但他们正在查看我们的邮件 price and comparing it to another mail piece price but in reality it's the mail 价格并将其与其他邮件价格进行比较，但实际上是邮件 piece price plus whatever they're paying this other agency to manage it for them 单价加上他们支付给其他机构为他们管理的费用 but those are coming out to different budgets right so for us we had this 但这些预算不同，所以对我们来说，我们有这个 realization when we started talking to companies and they kept trying to sort 当我们开始与公司交谈并且他们不断尝试排序时才意识到 of ask like oh well why is it more expensive when really the reason why is 的问题就像哦，为什么它更贵，而真正的原因是 more expensive is because we're doing more things for them right and that's 更昂贵是因为我们为他们做了更多正确的事情，那就是 very logical but help them understand you know model that are used to we had 非常合乎逻辑，但可以帮助他们理解我们习惯的模型 adapt to what they've already seen in the market one of the things that's been 适应他们在市场上已经看到的东西之一 interesting to me as a trend is that like software wanting to be a commodity and 我感兴趣的一个趋势是，就像软件想要成为一种商品一样 the value and price of it getting lower and lower and then you know API 它的价值和价格越来越低，然后你就知道API了 companies like sit at the very bottom there like fundamental like 公司喜欢坐在最底层，就像基本面一样 infrastructure for services and so you know this is probably related but how do 服务的基础设施，所以你知道这可能是相关的，但是如何做 00:18 00:18 you think about that as a business like do you guys set out to be like okay 你认为作为一个企业，你们打算这样做吗？ we're we're gonna look here to compete on price or on sort of a value and then 我们要在这里进行价格或某种价值的竞争，然后 how can value work in an infrastructure sort of commodities like business yeah 价值如何在商业等基础设施类商品中发挥作用 是的 yeah I'm and I think it's different for every single commodity right so you know 是的，我认为每种商品都是不同的，所以你知道 while you might be able to compare like email or SMS I think those are priced 虽然你可以像电子邮件或短信一样进行比较，但我认为这些是定价的 differently in didn't you know lob for us I think what we found is we wanted to 不同的是，你不知道为我们吊球吗？我认为我们发现我们想要 be cost competitive if not the best price to market for the actual cost of 如果不是针对实际成本的最佳市场价格，则具有成本竞争力 mail which we see is a relatively commoditized product right you can go to 我们看到的邮件是一个相对商品化的产品，你可以去 any number of commercial printers and they can produce the mail for you so 任意数量的商业印刷商，他们可以为您制作邮件，以便 really like what's different about buying software through lob is that 真的很喜欢通过 lob 购买软件的不同之处在于 you're getting access to our entire API and all the Associated offerings that 您可以访问我们的整个 API 以及所有相关产品 come with our platform by sending email through law so we want to differentiate 通过法律发送电子邮件来使用我们的平台，因此我们希望与众不同 like what is it that customers paying we want them to know that they're getting 就像客户付款后我们希望他们知道他们得到了什么 00:19 00:19 the best price in a market for something that they see as a commodity which is 他们认为是商品的市场上的最佳价格 the cost of the actual mail piece but we want them to pay us the value that they 实际邮件的成本，但我们希望他们向我们支付他们的价值 saw and using our software to send mail so that's sort of why we made this split 看到并使用我们的软件发送邮件，这就是我们进行此拆分的原因 and having a platform fee as well as like a per piece price how does that 并有平台费用以及每件价格，那是怎么回事 adjust your sort of product roadmap that like have these technology differences 调整您喜欢具有这些技术差异的产品路线图 that makes you different from like just a printer who can say like hey I can do 这让你不同于一个可以说“嘿我能做”的打印机 that digital printing yeah that's a good question so I think for us it goes down 数字印刷是的，这是一个很好的问题，所以我认为对我们来说它会下降 to a conversation like how much are these like features worth to our 对话，比如这些类似的功能对我们来说有多少价值 customers right and I think over time we built different layers like different 客户是对的，我认为随着时间的推移，我们构建了不同的层，例如不同的层 sort of offerings like nimbarka and enterprise offering we realized that 像 nimbarka 和企业产品这样的产品我们意识到 customers would be willing to pay more for specific features what are some 客户愿意为特定功能支付更多费用 examples so a good example this is like you know HIPAA one of the key 示例，这是一个很好的示例，就像您了解 HIPAA 的关键之一 considerations for companies are more regulated spaces that they need to have a 公司的考虑因素是他们需要拥有更受监管的空间 but compliant offering now like it's more expensive for us to have like a 但现在合规的产品对我们来说更加昂贵 HIPAA compliant offering but we also realize that one of the key 符合 HIPAA 标准的产品，但我们也意识到关键之一 00:20 00:20 considerations when companies are looking at you know printers is can they 当公司在寻找您知道打印机时的考虑因素是他们可以吗 meet these requirements so we actually charge more for those customers because 满足这些要求，所以我们实际上对这些客户收取更多费用，因为 it costs us more and also because there's less offerings that are able to 它使我们花费更多，而且还因为能够提供的产品更少 do something like that programmatically right now they're gonna manage their 现在以编程方式做类似的事情，他们将管理他们的 customer information in a secure fashion both in terms of how they Tran 客户信息以安全的方式传输 transitioning the information to you and transferring it to you as well as like 将信息传递给您并将其传递给您以及类似 you know being stored in our system and this is like you know people's names and 您知道存储在我们的系统中，就像您知道人们的名字一样 addresses this is very sensitive information for a lot of companies and 解决这对许多公司来说是非常敏感的信息 it's something that they value very highly we had customers that would be 这是他们非常看重的东西，我们的客户会 like we'll pay you if you guys can do X for us and that's when you really know 就像如果你们能为我们做某事，我们就会付钱给你们，那时你们才真正知道 you're onto a feature that's really important because they can actually 您正在使用一个非常重要的功能，因为它们实际上可以 quantify the value that that's worth to them and it makes it easier for us to 量化对他们来说有价值的价值，这使我们更容易 understand and prioritize our product roadmap because we know what customers 了解我们的产品路线图并确定其优先顺序，因为我们了解客户的需求 are willing to pay for not just like you know hey can they achieve a slightly 愿意为不只是像你知道的那样付费，嘿他们可以实现一点点 higher conversion of hip mothering now we know that like they're gonna pay us 时尚母爱的转化率更高，现在我们知道他们会付钱给我们 an extra ten thousand it's worth it's done because that's what they see and so 额外一万是值得的，因为这就是他们所看到的，所以 what are the other trades that you've made in the context of like fulfilling 您在类似履行的背景下进行过哪些其他交易 the desires of these enterprise customers when you realize oh maybe they 当你意识到这些企业客户的愿望哦也许他们 00:21 00:21 don't care about this for example like more vertical integration type stuff 不关心这个，例如像更多垂直整合类型的东西 yeah so I think some examples of this is like we realized that the execution 是的，所以我认为这方面的一些例子就像我们意识到执行 component like being able to track your mail and having sort of a platform 组件，例如能够跟踪您的邮件并拥有某种平台 offering being available through API that was really important because a lot 通过 API 提供的产品非常重要，因为很多 of companies actually are especially larger folks they're working with 的公司实际上是与他们合作的大公司 agencies that have helped them with a lot of the you know segmentation to 帮助他们进行许多你知道的细分的机构 actual management of the campaign the design of the mail pieces you know these 活动的实际管理 邮件的设计 你知道这些 are things that we've thought about building products around make it easier 我们在构建产品时考虑过哪些事情，让事情变得更容易 for people to build beautiful mail pieces but what we found is like most 人们可以制作漂亮的邮件，但我们发现的是大多数邮件 people already have that in enterprise they're already ready to go their 人们已经在企业中拥有了他们已经准备好去他们的 problems are not around you know the need for designing a better mail piece 问题并不存在，您知道需要设计更好的邮件 they have a full-service creative agency 他们有一个提供全方位服务的创意机构 that has like 16 different campaigns and I've already thought that through so 大约有 16 个不同的活动，我已经想到了 they already have it right so there's a good example for you how many employees 他们已经做好了，所以有一个很好的例子给你看有多少员工 do you guys have at well how big are you guys yeah we're we're we've been hiring 你们知道你们有多大吗？是的，我们正在招聘，我们一直在招聘 00:22 00:22 a lot this year so we're just shy of 70 right now just 70 and then don't take 今年很多，所以我们现在还不到 70，只是 70，然后就不要采取 offense but for an API company I met it's difficult to recruit people here 冒犯了，但是对于我遇到的一家 API 公司来说，在这里招聘人员很困难 and so like what do you guys have to do and what have you sort of figured out 就像你们必须做什么以及你们想出了什么办法 that that helps you sort of like compete against everyone else out here in Yasko 这可以帮助你与 Yasko 的其他人竞争 I mean I can tell you mail is not exactly the most sexy thing in the world 我的意思是我可以告诉你邮件并不是世界上最性感的东西 certainly not you know a I love these non sexy users especially ones that make 当然不是，你知道我喜欢这些不性感的用户，尤其是那些让 money yeah and so to me it's like that's probably a good leg up but I'm just 钱是的，所以对我来说这可能是一个很好的优势，但我只是 wondering like for you guys if you're looking for that like yeah top engineer 想知道你们是否正在寻找像顶级工程师这样的人 to come on and make a difference yeah like how do you inspire them with the 来吧，做出改变是的，就像你如何激励他们 mission like this good question so a couple things that we think about 使命就像这个好问题，所以我们考虑了一些事情 the first thing you need to do is understand the motivations for each 你需要做的第一件事就是了解每个人的动机 individual that you're trying to hire everyone's gonna care about something 你想雇用的人每个人都会关心一些事情 sounds a lot like your sales yeah but there's but it's true right you have to 听起来很像你的销售是的，但是确实如此，你必须这样做 realize like what is it that people want to join a company for and you need to 意识到人们想加入一家公司的目的是什么，而你需要这样做 00:23 00:23 identify the folks that are good fit for where we're really strong so for us if 找出那些适合我们真正强项的人，所以对我们来说，如果 you go and you ask like why some of the folks join law I think the majorities 你去问为什么有些人加入法律我认为大多数人 folks would tell you it's it's around our culture right that and that's the 人们会告诉你这是我们的文化，这就是 reason that they got inspired to join so 他们受到启发加入的原因 the mission is certainly important and I 这个使命当然很重要，我 think we spend a lot of time I'm talking 我觉得我们花了很多时间 我在说话 not just about what we do today but like what is that we want to achieve but 不仅仅是我们今天所做的事情，还有我们想要实现的目标，但是 ultimately I think one of the key consideration is like what's it going to 最终我认为关键的考虑因素之一是它会做什么 be like to actually work out law how can am I gonna be happy there 就像真正制定法律一样，我在那里怎样才能快乐 and that's a huge motivating factor for a lot of people so we spend a lot of 这对很多人来说是一个巨大的激励因素，所以我们花了很多钱 time internally thinking about you know our culture how do we sort of like find 花时间在内心思考你了解我们的文化我们如何找到 the right folks that map into the culture that we have how do we sort of 融入我们文化的合适人选，我们该如何做 like give engineers and give potential candidates a sense for what your culture 比如让工程师和潜在候选人了解您的文化 is like and we do that through writing blogs we do that through you know having 就像我们通过写博客来做到这一点，我们通过你知道的那样做到这一点 people come on-site beforehand to get a sense of what it's like to be there and 人们事先来到现场，了解那里的感觉， we try to make sure that throughout sort of like our activities we're tying 我们努力确保在整个过程中我们都在进行类似的活动 together our core values and giving people a good representation of what 将我们的核心价值观结合在一起，并为人们提供一个很好的代表 it's like to work at law and so also part of this is the comp and so before 这就像在法律部门工作，所以这也是补偿的一部分，所以之前 00:24 00:24 we start recording you talked about options versus rsu's yeah what's your 我们开始记录你谈到的期权与RSU的是的，你的是什么 opinion on that yeah so you know I think they're both good instruments do you 对此的看法是的，所以你知道我认为它们都是很好的乐器，是吗？ mind helping for those people who might yeah what is the difference between like 介意帮助那些可能是的人，喜欢和喜欢有什么区别 an RSU and yeah option absolutely so one of the things Connelly misunderstood is 一个RSU，是的，绝对是一个选择，所以康纳利误解的一件事是 like equity compensation so RS use and options they're both 就像股权补偿一样，RS 的使用和选择都是 different forms of equity that company can offer you in a company the main 公司可以为您提供的不同形式的股权 difference that we see options essentially you've to purchase so 区别在于我们看到的选项本质上是你必须购买的 there's a strike prices associated for options so as an employee you have to 期权有相关的执行价格，因此作为员工，您必须 make a decision at some point in the company's lifecycle that you want to 在公司生命周期的某个时刻做出您想要的决定 spend you know your own money to purchase shares of the company and 花你自己的钱购买公司的股票并且 that's why you've essentially one option is it's the right to purchase shares at 这就是为什么你本质上有一个选择，那就是购买股票的权利 this particular price point but the reality is you know you're gonna pay 这个特定的价格点，但现实是你知道你会付出代价 some relatively significant amount of money potentially in order to acquire 一些相对大量的资金可能用于收购 those shares and we've heard like people 那些分享，我们听说过类似的人 taking out loans to do this like there's companies designed to help people do 申请贷款来做到这一点，就像有些公司旨在帮助人们做到这一点 00:25 00:25 this so it's not an insignificant amount of money RS use are a little bit 所以这不是一笔小数目的钱 RS 使用了一点点 different RS use is actually a stock grant so you know there's actual value 不同的 RS 使用实际上是股票授予，因此您知道有实际价值 to artists you that you're receiving and you're not paying for the right to the 给您所接收的艺术家，并且您没有为该权利付费 RS you you're actually being granted that RS you so for us you know at LOB we RS 你实际上被授予了 RS 你所以对于我们来说你知道在 LOB 我们 actually decided and I think it's a little non-traditional that we built 实际上决定了，我认为我们建造的有点非传统 sort of like a unique RSU instrument that we think is sort of like the best 有点像我们认为最好的独特 RSU 仪器 of both worlds right and essentially the motivations where we want company to be 两个世界的权利以及本质上我们希望公司成为的动机 people to be invested in a company in the long term we want design equity 从长远来看，人们要投资一家公司，我们需要设计股权 compensation that didn't feel like a risk to the employee the whole entire 整个过程中员工感觉不到风险的补偿 reason why you want equity in a company is you want a share in the upside you 你想要一家公司的股权的原因是你想要分享你的优势 want to feel like you're a part owner the company but if you have to like 想要感觉自己是公司的股东，但如果你不得不喜欢 spend an enormous on money without knowing what the outcome of the company 花了巨资却不知道公司的结果如何 is going to be in advance which you can't predict that puts you in this like 会提前发生，你无法预测，这会让你陷入这样的境地 weird scenario where you like you want to buy your shares but you're not sure 奇怪的情况，你想购买你的股票，但你不确定 if you wanted and we felt like that was a really tough position to be in as a 如果你愿意的话，我们觉得作为一个人来说这是一个非常艰难的处境 00:26 00:26 potential candidate so we design artists use in a way so that you know our 潜在的候选人，因此我们设计艺术家以某种方式使用，以便您了解我们的 employees actually rsu's when you join law so what that means is you don't have 当你加入法律时，员工实际上是RSU，所以这意味着你没有 to make that consideration of like you know should I spend the money to buy my 考虑到像你知道的那样我应该花钱买我的 options when should I exercise that and there's obviously some differences there 我应该什么时候行使这个选项，并且显然存在一些差异 right like I think the major difference is like when you get tax but we always 是的，我认为主要的区别就像你何时纳税，但我们总是 looked at it as you know you don't get taxes and rsus until there's actual a 看看它，因为你知道在实际存在之前你不会得到税收和RSUS liquidity event in this scenario because we don't physically we don't actually 在这种情况下会发生流动性事件，因为我们实际上并没有 grant you the Rs you and tell you there is liquidity event so therefore you know 授予您卢比并告诉您存在流动性事件，因此您知道 you out is at the time of which you receive 你出去的时间是你收到的时间 money right rsu's and i think you know what we found is that you know 钱是对的 RSU，我想你知道我们发现的是你知道的 especially employees you understand cui competition that's something that's 尤其是你了解的员工，竞争就是这样的 really attractive to them and when we think about wanting people be here for 对他们来说真的很有吸引力，当我们考虑希望人们来这里时 30 years we don't want people to stay for the wrong reasons of like oh I don't 30年来，我们不希望人们因为错误的原因留下来，比如哦，我不 have the money exercise my options I'm gonna stay I wanted to stay because they 有钱行使我的选择权 我要留下来 我想留下来，因为他们 enjoy the people that work with they enjoy what we're working on are inspired 享受与我们一起工作的人 他们享受我们正在做的事情 受到启发 thumbs up we have but we still want to give them a share and actually being an 我们竖起大拇指，但我们仍然想给他们分享，实际上是一个 00:27 00:27 owner in the company mmm and how do you handle vesting so sales team best thing 公司所有者嗯，你如何处理归属，所以销售团队最好的事情 specially do a one-year cliff and we essentially you know vest monthly 特别做一年悬崖，我们基本上你知道每月背心 thereafter so it's the same as like an option in that sense one thing we do we 此后，它就像一个选项一样，从这个意义上说，我们做的一件事是 also reserve like retention grants for people's so at our two and a half year 在我们的两年半时间里，还为人们保留了类似的保留补助金 mark and every year thereafter we continue to give people opportunity to 马克，此后每年我们都会继续为人们提供机会 gain additional equity in the company and our thought is like the longer you 获得公司的额外股权，我们的想法是你的时间越长 stay at the company the more equity you should be able to acquire there 留在公司你应该能够获得更多的股权 shouldn't be a point where you ever stop earning equity in the company mmm so 不应该是你停止在公司赚取股权的时刻，嗯，所以 what what kind of mistakes did you guys make when it came to like closing your 当谈到关闭你的网站时，你们犯了什么样的错误？ first like big sales yeah so I actually think there's a valuable lesson we 首先是大促销，是的，所以我实际上认为我们学到了宝贵的一课 learned during our early YC days in that like when you're selling your product 在我们早期的 YC 日子里学到的，就像当你销售你的产品时一样 you're oftentimes selling something that you might not have just yet but I also 你经常出售一些你可能还没有的东西，但我也 think it's really important you have to actually get alignment with your 认为这非常重要，您必须真正与自己的想法保持一致 customer and be upfront about like what you do what you can do today what you 并坦率地告诉客户，您正在做什么，您今天可以做什么 might be able to do if you share an also agree on like a timeline of what that 如果您分享并同意诸如时间表之类的内容，也许可以做到 00:28 00:28 looks like get it in writing and have that sort of 看起来像是书面形式并有这样的 be part of the close of the deal where we weren't wrong and I sort of laughed 成为交易完成的一部分，我们没有错，我有点笑了 because we built what I thought was a freaking awesome product back in a day 因为我们在一天之内就打造出了我认为非常棒的产品 we actually had a mugs API this is in our like demo day slot its coffee mugs 我们实际上有一个杯子 API，这在我们的演示日时段中是它的咖啡杯 yeah coffee mugs there's a point where we thought it was a brilliant idea to be 是的，咖啡杯有一点我们认为这是一个绝妙的主意 able to print coffee mugs on demand through our API we wanted to be able to 能够通过我们希望能够通过我们的 API 按需打印咖啡杯 print on anything and how this happens we had a customer who came to us and 在任何东西上打印以及这是如何发生的 我们有一位客户来找我们并且 told us that they had this use case for coffee mugs and it was like a big number 告诉我们他们有咖啡杯的用例，这是一个很大的数字 a really big number for us and you know when you're small every single you know 对我们来说这是一个非常大的数字，你知道当你还很小的时候你知道的每个人 deal looks super valuable and we're like this is awesome these are so cool the 这笔交易看起来非常有价值，我们觉得这太棒了，这些太酷了 two coffee mugs and we built the product so we told the 两个咖啡杯，我们制造了这个产品，所以我们告诉 customer we can definitely do for you you know we'll have free choice and we 客户我们绝对可以为您做您知道我们将有自由选择，我们 scramble and we hustle super hot we built a fully functioning mugs API 争先恐后，我们超级热衷于构建一个功能齐全的杯子 API product but we didn't sign any paperwork this customer so we built this whole 产品，但我们没有签署该客户的任何文件，所以我们建造了整个产品 00:29 00:29 entire thing we spent two weeks of valuable engineering time we met two 整个事情我们花了两周宝贵的工程时间我们遇到了两个 customer mr. customer we have the mugs API here's how you use it and he was 顾客先生客户，我们有马克杯 API，这是您使用它的方式，他是 like awesome like we'll get right on it he went dark he stopped responding I was 太棒了，我们会马上开始，他黑了，他不再回应了，我是 super disappointed to this date we sold two mugs mugs API - one of them went to 到目前为止，我们非常失望，我们售出了两个马克杯 API - 其中一个去了 another YC partner actually Dalton he was working on an app that net and I 另一位 YC 合作伙伴实际上是道尔顿（Dalton），他正在开发一个我和网络上的应用程序 convinced him that like he should definitely do mugs as well and I think 让他相信他也应该做杯子，我想 he put in like one order for it and it worked 他下了一份订单，结果成功了 he's like this was awesome we killed the 他说这太棒了我们杀了 product a little bit shortly after but I think it was a really valuable lesson 不久之后就推出了产品，但我认为这是一个非常有价值的教训 and that like you always want to be selling a little bit ahead of where you 就像你总是希望比你的销售位置提前一点 are but you also want to align up the customer like what you actually haven't 是，但您还希望像您实际上没有做到的那样与客户保持一致 don't have and that actually helped us close you know one of our biggest 没有，这实际上帮助我们关闭了你知道我们最大的之一 customers today in booking com do you know essentially how this opportunity 今天在 Booking com 上的客户您是否基本上知道这个机会 came about is they were already a customer of law using our address 原因是他们已经是使用我们地址的法律客户 verification API and they had sort of this moment in time with gdpr where they 验证 API，他们在此时此刻与 gdpr 进行了合作 00:30 00:30 started reevaluating all their vendors for print and we sort of got roped into 开始重新评估所有印刷供应商，我们有点陷入困境 consideration one of the key things that was really important to them was 考虑对他们来说真正重要的关键事情之一是 actually like having operations in Europe they were familiar with our API 实际上喜欢在欧洲开展业务，他们熟悉我们的 API in the US they knew it worked really well but like they're a global company 在美国，他们知道它的效果非常好，但就像他们是一家全球性公司一样 and of course like they want to know what our long-term plan is to support 当然，就像他们想知道我们的长期计划是支持什么一样 Europe and eventually Asia so you know part of the negotiation as we're working 欧洲，最终是亚洲，所以你知道我们正在进行的谈判的一部分 through this big deal its customers that 通过这项大交易，其客户 we need to align with them on a timeline and how we were gonna get Europe up and 我们需要在时间表上与他们保持一致，以及我们如何让欧洲站起来 running for them so for us that's originating you know letters and 为他们奔跑，所以对我们来说，这就是你知道字母和 postcards and our other mail offerings in Europe and that was sort of tricky 明信片和我们在欧洲的其他邮件产品，这有点棘手 but I think we had learned some valuable lessons in that like we weren't gonna 但我认为我们已经吸取了一些宝贵的教训，就像我们不会 just go and build all of Europe and scramble for potentially months at a 去建造整个欧洲，并在可能的几个月里争夺一个 time but we also weren't going to tell a 时间，但我们也不打算告诉 customer something we didn't have either so we were pretty upfront about them 客户有一些我们也没有的东西，所以我们对他们非常坦率 about what our capabilities look like you know the timeline of which you're 关于我们的能力，您知道您的时间表 going to roll and we actually agrees to all these 即将开始，我们实际上同意所有这些 00:31 00:31 things at during our negotiation so what it really helped is like our customer 在我们谈判期间发生的事情所以真正有帮助的是我们的客户 actually want to help us get things going faster right they're like we want 实际上想帮助我们让事情进展得更快，就像我们想要的那样 you guys get up and running you're up like right now and you know we could 你们站起来跑起来，就像现在一样，你知道我们可以 actually ask for their help in building exactly what is that why and now it's 实际上请求他们帮助构建到底是什么原因，现在是 sort of like a partnership rather than like hey we've oversold something it's 有点像合作伙伴关系，而不是像嘿我们超卖了一些东西 more about how can we work with our customer to achieve the results that we 更多关于我们如何与客户合作以实现我们期望的结果 both want to get to and I think that's really important especially as you're 双方都想到达，我认为这非常重要，尤其是当你 talking about larger enterprise deals you're not always gonna have everything 谈论更大的企业交易时，你并不总是能拥有一切 but really sort of structuring and not over selling it but also setting the 但实际上是一种结构化，而不是过度销售，而是设定 right expectation of customers it's difficult to navigate that sometimes but 客户的正确期望有时很难驾驭，但是 we found as a policies better to be you know upfront honest about what you can 我们发现，作为一项政策，最好让您诚实地了解自己可以做什么 and can't do and actually you know if the customer really wants to work with 做不到，实际上你知道客户是否真的想合作 you they're gonna find a way to make it work with you and that's the best 你他们会找到一种方法让它与你合作，这是最好的 position to be in mm-hmm are there other examples where you get a 位置在 mm-hmm 中，还有其他例子可以让您得到 potentially incredibly high value kind of like enterprise scale client and they 潜在的高价值就像企业规模的客户，他们 want something that you don't do do you now like kind of fish around see if 想要一些你不做的事情，你现在喜欢周围的鱼吗？看看是否 00:32 00:32 anyone else is interested in the Muggs API before you follow through with it 在您继续使用之前，其他人对 Muggs API 感兴趣 yeah definitely so like I think a common example this is we're always evaluating 是的，绝对如此，我认为这是我们一直在评估的一个常见例子 mail format so what I mean by that is like you know you get different types of 邮件格式所以我的意思是就像你知道你会收到不同类型的邮件 letters all shapes and sizes we don't support every single different yeah mail 字母各种形状和大小我们不支持每一个不同的邮件 offering today but we have a list of like what company people have been 今天提供，但我们有一份类似公司人员的名单 asking for and what we found is for us is a little bit of a chicken and egg 我们所要求的和我们发现的对我们来说是一个先有鸡还是先有蛋的问题 problem we don't want to start with like a really small volume customer because 我们不想像一个非常小的批量客户那样开始解决这个问题，因为 it makes it difficult for us operationally but same time it's like we 这让我们的运营变得困难，但同时就像我们 also know that this is a product people are interested in they want to see proof 也知道这是人们感兴趣的产品，他们想看到证据 points so what we found is you know we have a list of these mail for meditation 点所以我们发现你知道我们有这些用于冥想的邮件列表 we're constantly evaluating when we talk to potential customers we know here's a 当我们与潜在客户交谈时，我们不断进行评估，我们知道这是一个 list that we would potentially be willing to consider so they can agree on 我们可能愿意考虑的清单，以便他们能够达成一致 a commitment level of like what they're gonna send and you know then we're 承诺级别就像他们将要发送的内容一样，你知道我们会 willing to entertain some of those areas 愿意娱乐其中一些领域 and that's actually helped we build some products in the past before you know we 这实际上帮助我们在过去构建了一些产品，然后你才知道我们 recently just launched I think you know earlier this week certified mail 最近刚刚推出，我想你知道这周早些时候的认证邮件 00:33 00:33 receipts we knew that when we launched certified mail this is for William way 收据我们知道，当我们推出挂号信时，这是给威廉的方式 if you guys remember he needed a certified mail we launched certified 如果你们还记得他需要经过认证的邮件，我们推出了认证邮件 mail but he didn't need certified mail tracking 邮件，但他不需要认证邮件跟踪 because he didn't really care like when it received you just care that he had a 因为他并不真正关心你什么时候收到，他只关心他有一个 proof point mm-hmm but we knew that that was something that we could potentially 证据点嗯嗯，但我们知道这是我们有可能实现的 do we chose not to do an early age because we didn't have like customers to 我们选择不做早年是因为我们没有像我们这样的客户吗？ willing to do that on mass so you know we were able to we got a few customers 愿意大规模这样做，所以你知道我们能够获得一些客户 that were really interested in certified 对认证真正感兴趣的 mail but felt like when you were missing this one little thing in you know mail 邮件，但感觉就像你错过了你知道邮件中的一件小事 receipts and we had that sort of like plan and we had thought about it and 收据，我们有类似的计划，我们已经考虑过了 finally we had the right customer who come before willing to make that 终于我们有了合适的客户，他们愿意这样做 commitment level we're already familiar for a product we actually went and built 对于我们实际构建的产品，我们已经熟悉的承诺水平 it and we just launched it that this week Congrats so the way that you pad 它，我们本周刚刚推出它，恭喜你，你的方式 works is like you guys provide this technology layer and you connect to all 工作原理就像你们提供这个技术层并且连接到所有 like a network of all these printers that's correct 就像所有这些打印机的网络一样，这是正确的 all around the world that's correct so what I'm kind of curious about is like 世界各地都是正确的所以我有点好奇的是 you've seen this trend as firstly as companies get larger and larger where 随着公司变得越来越大，你首先看到了这种趋势 00:34 00:34 they get more vertically integrated well Dale like want to do every step of the 他们得到了更多的垂直整合，戴尔喜欢做每一步 process so they can own it in terms of 流程，以便他们可以拥有它 quality but also like an R&D and cetera 质量，但也像研发等等 and I'm kind of curious do you feel like is that a thing that you guys will 我有点好奇你们是否觉得这是你们会做的事情 eventually do or if not why not so for example it's just like basically 最终会这样做，或者如果不这样做，为什么不这样做，例如，基本上就像 you buy a printer or you like own some printing facilities and be like okay 你买了一台打印机，或者你想拥有一些打印设备，就可以了 great because like this whole like flexibility and mail format etc like 很棒，因为就像这整个一样，灵活性和邮件格式等 part of the reason that you have to be cautious about what you go into is 你必须对自己所从事的事情保持谨慎的部分原因是 because you have to go and spend time to find the right partners booth out the 因为你必须花时间去寻找合适的合作伙伴展位 integration and then sort of make it work and so I'm just kind of curious 集成，然后让它发挥作用，所以我只是有点好奇 about like is there a point in the future where lob like like owns owns 关于like，未来是否有某个时刻，像like owns owns那样的高球 like a giant printer yeah I mean we don't have that in the plan today is the 就像一台巨型打印机 是的，我的意思是我们今天的计划中没有这个 short answer right certainly if there's a huge need 如果有巨大的需求，简短的回答肯定是正确的 we'd consider it but you know the motivation for us is like we see mail SS 我们会考虑，但你知道我们的动机就像我们看到邮件 SS 00:35 00:35 somewhat commoditized product we also know that like it's a huge industry for 我们也知道，某种程度上商品化的产品是一个巨大的行业 a reason there are hundreds of thousands of printers that are out there but they 这是市场上有数十万台打印机的原因，但它们 all specialize in like slightly different things so you know for us to 所有人都专注于略有不同的事情，所以你知道我们 be good at what we do we can't try to do everything at once it would actually be 擅长我们所做的事情，我们不能尝试一下子做所有事情，实际上是这样 really difficult and super Kappa Lee a capital intensive for us to buy all of 真的很难，超级Kappa Lee需要大量资金，我们才能买下所有 the necessary hardware and like what if our customers need to change we won 必要的硬件，如果我们的客户需要改变怎么办，我们赢了 flexibility and part of having sort of a network of folks enable us to have the 灵活性和拥有某种人际网络的一部分使我们能够拥有 flexibility I remember in our very early 灵活性我记得在我们很早的时候 days at lob we are still this is pre lob or pre YC application one of the things 在 lob 的日子里，我们仍然在，这是 lob 前或 YC 申请前的事情之一 we want to do is we sort of just want to get our own printer real like hey it'd 我们想做的是我们只是想让我们自己的打印机像嘿一样真实 be nice if we could just like do it ourselves like why do we need like real 如果我们能像自己一样做就好了，为什么我们需要像真正的那样 fine somebody else that's just like another place for something to go wrong 罚款别人，这就像另一个出错的地方 because you're looking at all these printers and probably like these guys 因为您正在查看所有这些打印机并且可能喜欢这些家伙 are in the Stone Age like like we should be replacing them yep that's that's 处于石器时代，就像我们应该更换它们一样，是的，就是这样 exactly right so we called up an HP Indigo vendor so 完全正确，因此我们致电 HP Indigo 供应商，以便 00:36 00:36 if you guys don't know HP Indigo czar like the commercial print standard 如果你们不了解 HP Indigo 沙皇（例如商业印刷标准） everyone you re in printers yet it's like this is what you want trust me so 你在打印机中的每个人但这就像你想要的相信我所以 we figured a satin honestly we didn't know too much about like the print world 老实说，我们想到了缎子，我们对印刷世界了解不多 at the time so we called the sales rep I 当时我们打电话给销售代表我 think the first time for him should have been like it was weird that meet we're 我想他第一次见面应该是很奇怪的 meeting in a Starbucks we met this guy Starbucks we didn't have a company to 在星巴克见面我们遇到了这个人星巴克我们没有一家公司 have a product at time we're like we're just saying get this printer because 有一个产品，我们就像我们只是说买这台打印机，因为 like we can do it better so we start asking them all the right questions like 好像我们可以做得更好，所以我们开始问他们所有正确的问题，比如 who like what's like you know how we're gonna do inserter like what are the 谁喜欢什么，就像你知道我们要如何做插入器一样 different formatting options like we cover everything and this guy's feeling 不同的格式选项，就像我们涵盖了一切和这个人的感觉 really good about this we're like yeah this guy's really smart he knows exactly 对此我们真的很满意，是的，这家伙真的很聪明，他清楚地知道 why we're definitely get this so my co-founder loves negotiates like so like 为什么我们肯定会得到这个，所以我的联合创始人喜欢像这样的谈判 how much like would this cost and he sort of taken aback 这要花多少钱，他有点吃惊 he's like start immediately talking about like they're releasing options and 他就像立即开始谈论他们正在释放选项 in my head I'm like I don't want to lease this I just want to buy it like 在我的脑海里，我不想租这个，我只想买它 we're about to go get some money and we're gonna raise capital we're gonna go 我们要去拿一些钱 我们要去筹集资金 我们要去 buy this and do it so we sort of like you know corner him a little bit like I 买这个然后这样做，这样我们就有点像你知道的那样把他逼到角落，就像我一样 00:37 00:37 like how much it cost like offer us a better price if we just buy outright and 比如如果我们直接购买的话要花多少钱给我们提供更好的价格 I think I don't remember the exact number but it was something like over a 我想我不记得确切的数字了，但大概是 million dollars and I sort of looked at lira I was like dude we're not doing 百万美元，我有点看着里拉，我就像伙计，我们不做 that like no chance we're gonna buy that printer but I think you know you know 我们不可能购买那台打印机，但我想你知道你知道 thinking about where we are today like you know maybe we do want to buy that 想想我们今天的处境，就像你知道的那样，也许我们确实想买那个 printer but like there's it immediately creates a ton of complexity in our 打印机，但就像它立即在我们的系统中造成了大量的复杂性 business absolutely and that's the thing I'm just curious about as I go Amazon 绝对是生意，这就是我在去亚马逊时好奇的事情 could have continued using 3pl services but at some point they realize like we 本来可以继续使用 3PL 服务，但在某些时候他们意识到像我们一样 need to own and build our own warehouses 需要拥有并建造自己的仓库 to build up a certain efficiency like we have a vision 建立一定的效率，就像我们有一个愿景 the future that requires us to own that technology inside and so I'm just 未来需要我们拥有内部技术，所以我只是 curious like you know what at what point 好奇就像你知道在什么时候 do you guys start to be like oh you know what we're we're being held back by our 你们是否开始说，哦，你知道我们是什么，我们被我们的阻碍所阻碍 partners yeah yeah that's a good question so we haven't felt that way and 合作伙伴 是的，这是一个很好的问题，所以我们没有这样的感觉 our partners have been like incredible partners and honestly they're experts at 我们的合作伙伴就像令人难以置信的合作伙伴，老实说，他们是以下领域的专家 00:38 00:38 print they are they know so much more we did down to like the color calibration 打印出来，他们知道的更多，我们所做的只是喜欢颜色校准 that we should be using on all of our printers I think the places we want to 我们应该在所有打印机上使用我认为我们想要的地方 think about it is if it could give us a competitive advantage if we're able to 考虑一下如果我们能够的话它是否可以给我们带来竞争优势 offer something by owning the print infrastructure that will give us the 通过拥有打印基础设施来提供一些东西，这将为我们提供 ability to do something nobody else can but I think that's like complex for us 有能力做别人做不到的事情，但我认为这对我们来说很复杂 right that would be like hey we have a you know we have a awesome hardware 是的，就像嘿我们有一个你知道我们有一个很棒的硬件 printing engineer who thought of a completely new way to do print and we're 印刷工程师想到了一种全新的印刷方式，而我们 gonna go compete with like HP's imaging division and we decided we can offer 要与惠普的成像部门竞争，我们决定可以提供 something that like nobody else has done we can like do this new you know Oh 没有人做过的事情我们可以做这个新的你知道哦 someone came out on a marquee with like a brand new type of printer that can do 有人在大帐篷上出现了一种全新类型的打印机，可以做到这一点 offset printing like that like yeah if we good yeah someone could do offset 像这样的胶印，如果我们好的话，有人可以做胶印 printing using like digital methodology at a price point that was like not 使用类似的数字方法进行印刷，价格却不像 achievable to pass I would be interested 可以通过 我会感兴趣 in talking to you anybody who's starting that company by the way the Tesla cool 与你交谈的任何人都以特斯拉的方式创办了这家公司 00:39 00:39 so you you guys are now six years old and six years coming up soon how have 所以你们现在已经六岁了，六年即将到来，怎么办？ you had to change as a founder and a manager over those years yeah it's a 这些年来，作为创始人和经理，你必须做出改变，是的，这是一个 good question I think the first thing and I'm still 好问题，我认为第一件事是，我仍然 getting comfortable that now is understanding that like your role as a 现在感到舒服就是理解就像你的角色一样 founder is gonna constantly keep changing for some reason in the early 创始人在早期会因为某种原因不断改变 days you know just like hey I'll just like constantly be building cool product 你知道的日子就像嘿，我会不断地开发很酷的产品 then I found a place where we needed somebody to go do sales so I led the 然后我找到了一个地方，我们需要有人去做销售，所以我领导了 sales team for a number of years and then all of a sudden we were doing okay 销售团队工作了很多年，然后突然间我们做得还不错 on sales but we didn't have any lead so I started working on marketing and I 销售，但我们没有任何线索，所以我开始从事营销工作，我 think what I found is that my roles then they continue to change and that's 我认为我发现我的角色然后他们继续改变，那就是 something like you have to get comfortable with us like a founder is 就像你必须像创始人一样对我们感到满意 that your role is gonna change and that's okay because what that's 你的角色将会改变，这没关系，因为那是什么 essentially saying is that you guys have gotten good enough that you can hire 本质上是说你们已经足够优秀了，可以雇用 somebody else do that and I think that's a you know 其他人这样做，我认为那是你知道的 expectation everyone should have when you go into business that like you 当你进入喜欢你的行业时，每个人都应该有的期望 should be comfortable of every aspect you know I think a lot of people like 应该对你知道的每个方面都很舒服我想很多人都喜欢 00:40 00:40 think that they can just just build product forever 认为他们可以永远构建产品 everyone should talk to customers everyone should be going and trying to 每个人都应该与客户交谈 每个人都应该去尝试 do sales in the early days because if you as a founder in a company can't sell 在早期做销售，因为如果你作为公司的创始人不能销售 the product nobody else is gonna be able to either yeah that's a great piece of 这个产品其他人都无法做到，是的，这是一件很棒的事情 advice all right thanks man thanks for coming in yeah absolutely thanks for the 好的建议，谢谢，谢谢你的到来，是的，绝对感谢 time guys thanks Harry you 时间伙计们谢谢哈利