00:00 00:00 sometimes Founders are afraid of asking the like the dumb question but that's a 有时创始人害怕问类似愚蠢的问题，但这是一个 worthwhile question to ask but if you can help your customer make more money 这是一个值得问的问题，但您是否可以帮助您的客户赚更多钱 they're probably gonna like you this is Michael cybo with Dalton 他们可能会喜欢你 这是 Michael cybo 和 Dalton Caldwell and today we're going to talk about how do you give more than you take 考德威尔和今天我们要谈谈如何付出比索取更多 from your users maybe we should start with kind of a business 101 right like 从你的用户那里，也许我们应该从某种业务 101 开始，就像 MBA in 30 seconds what do you think okay so the basic idea underpinning all uh 30 秒内获得 MBA 你觉得怎么样，所以支撑这一切的基本思想呃 technological progress um very basic stuff is if you sell someone 技术进步，嗯，非常基本的事情是，如果你卖掉某人 a tool and if they can use the tool to make more money than the tool cost them 一个工具，以及他们是否可以使用该工具赚到比该工具花费更多的钱 boom you're creating value when people like it and so you know some very basic 当人们喜欢它时，你就创造了价值，所以你知道一些非常基本的知识 examples Google when they first launched Google ads it was very easy to buy 谷歌的例子 当他们第一次推出谷歌广告时，很容易购买 Google ads you you would pay Google per click and you could sell stuff for way 谷歌广告你你会支付谷歌每次点击，你可以以某种方式出售东西 more than you paid Google so you would just do that all day long and make tons 比你付给谷歌的钱还要多，所以你整天这样做就能赚到很多钱 00:01 00:01 of money right very straightforward makes sense um talk about Excel and 金钱的权利非常简单明了，嗯谈论 Excel 和 Microsoft Office Microsoft Office is a perfect example if you think about word Microsoft Office 如果您想到 Word，Microsoft Office 就是一个完美的例子 or you think about Excel these are products that made normal office workers 或者您想到 Excel，这些产品让普通办公室工作人员受益匪浅 and normal kind of Financial workers literally like 10 do 100 times more 而普通的金融工作者实际上喜欢 10 次多做 100 次 productive yeah and so if you can make an employee 10 times more productive 生产力是的，所以如果你能让员工的生产力提高 10 倍 people probably buy and like that's cool buying a computer back in the 80s was 人们可能会在 80 年代购买一台电脑，并认为这很酷 expensive and buying Visa calc or whatever was expensive but it was still 昂贵，购买 Visa calc 或其他东西很贵，但仍然很贵 way positive Roi like five grand 10 grand no sweat because spreadsheets made 积极的 Roi 就像 5 大 10 大 不费吹灰之力，因为电子表格制作 them better yes okay classic examples so 他们更好 是的 好的 经典例子 所以 let's get to the problem there are a lot of Founders out there that are building 让我们来解决这个问题，有很多创始人正在建设 products that deliver no or minimum value to the user classic fear is always 无法为用户提供任何价值或提供最低价值的产品总是令人恐惧 like well I need to grow right the most important thing is to grow in order to 同样，我需要成长，最重要的是成长，以便 raise money and so I'm gonna build something that kind of sucks 筹集资金，所以我要建造一些很糟糕的东西 00:02 00:02 because like or screw that it sucks right because most MVPs suck I'm going 因为喜欢或者搞砸了，这很糟糕，因为大多数 MVP 都很糟糕，我要去 to build something that doesn't solve anyone's problem and just try to get 建造一些不能解决任何人问题的东西，只是试图得到 money for it so that I can go raise money I think that's yeah it's like it's 钱，这样我就可以去筹集资金，我想是的，就像这样 make something VCS want it's like something perverted yes thing that we 做一些VCS想要的东西，就像是一些变态的东西，是的，我们 are not fans of yes where you're like well superficially this resembles a 不是“是”的粉丝，从表面上看，这就像一个 software product that superficially people pay for yes yes and therefore we 表面上人们付费的软件产品是的，因此我们 should charge a similar amount of money for it and like boom boom the specifics 应该收取类似金额的费用，并且像繁荣繁荣一样，具体细节 of what it does is details you know we we've got our top folks on that yes but 它的作用是细节，你知道我们有我们的高层人员在这方面，是的，但是 we've talked about that before so that's that's an obvious yeah I think there's 我们之前已经讨论过这一点，所以这是显而易见的，是的，我认为有 another one which is this fear of being a consultant I think one of the reasons 另一个是对成为顾问的恐惧，我认为这是原因之一 why people build shitty products that don't solve people's problems is that 为什么人们制造出不能解决人们问题的劣质产品是因为 when they start talking to a user and the user starts saying well here's my 当他们开始与用户交谈并且用户开始说好这是我的 problem I could really use this this and this the founder starts thinking about 问题我真的可以使用这个这个这个创始人开始思考 that and thinking and fearing what if this user is different from every other 思考并担心如果这个用户与其他用户不同怎么办 user what if the problem they have is different and so what if I have to build 如果用户遇到的问题不同怎么办，如果我必须构建怎么办 00:03 00:03 something to make them happy I have to build something that no one else wants I 一些让他们高兴的东西 我必须建造一些没有人想要的东西 think this is a core fear that happens because I think that every found in the 我认为这是一种核心恐惧，因为我认为在 back of their head thank you Reid Hoffman is thinking when can I get to 他们的后脑勺谢谢你雷德霍夫曼正在考虑我什么时候可以到达 Blitz scale like when when can I raise the big round and throw this everywhere 闪电战规模就像我什么时候可以举起大轮并将其扔得到处都是 and you know have everyone use my thing and every founder knows in their heart 你知道让每个人都使用我的东西并且每个创始人心里都知道 that if they're not making a simple thing that everyone's going to use they 如果他们不做一个每个人都会使用的简单的东西 can't put scale it so I think this is the core fear 无法衡量它，所以我认为这是核心恐惧 I'm fearing being a consultant and It's tricky because like this isn't wrong 我害怕成为一名顾问，这很棘手，因为这样并没有错 yeah there's a kernel there's a there is 是的，有一个内核，有一个，有 a good idea in there yeah like there's a good there is an insight there is an 那里有一个好主意，是的，就像有一个好主意，有一个洞察力，有一个 Insight but I might argue it's exactly wrong when you're early maybe we should 有洞察力，但我可能会说，当你还早的时候，这是完全错误的，也许我们应该 talk about that like what's the difference between being early and maybe 谈论这个问题，比如早到和也许有什么区别 not even understanding the problem well and being way later on when like 甚至没有很好地理解这个问题，并且在像这样的时候才很晚 being consultant is maybe more of a risk I think if you're not a deep expert on 我认为，如果你不是这方面的资深专家，担任顾问可能会面临更大的风险 00:04 00:04 what the customer's problems are and how they make money and how they work most 客户的问题是什么以及他们如何赚钱以及他们如何工作最多 Founders you make assumptions about how their business should work which could 创始人对他们的业务应该如何运作做出假设，这可能会 be mistaken so again when the founders of Google started Google I would imagine 当谷歌的创始人创办谷歌时，我会再次犯这样的错误 they were not experts on Performance Marketing and how basically a lot of the 他们不是效果营销方面的专家，而且基本上很多 early Google customers as I recall were mortgage refinance people yeah where 我记得早期的 Google 客户是抵押贷款再融资人员 是的，在哪里 they they would buy people searching for mortgage refinancing the advertisers 他们会购买那些寻找抵押贷款再融资的人广告商 would buy those clicks and they were worth a lot of money to them there you 会购买这些点击，它们对他们来说值很多钱 go and the founders of Google did not need to be experts on that but as they 谷歌的创始人不需要是这方面的专家，但他们 as they got users and they built the business model understanding what 当他们获得用户并建立商业模型时，他们了解什么 problems the the customers had was super 客户遇到的问题非常严重 important yes right I mean what are some other examples of like I mean we've 重要的是，是的，我的意思是还有哪些其他例子，就像我的意思是我们已经 we've talked about this before but the classic examples with twitch like we did 我们之前已经讨论过这个问题，但是像我们一样的 twitch 的经典例子 not understand what streamers wanted until not only do we talk to them we 不明白主播想要什么，直到我们不仅与他们交谈 started building things and so I think that like 开始建造东西所以我认为就像 maybe the issue here is that if you be if you're being consultant early 也许这里的问题是，如果你是，如果你很早就成为顾问 00:05 00:05 what you don't end up doing is learning enough about the customer and so the 你最终没有做的是充分了解客户，因此 counter and true advice we're giving is basically 我们给出的反驳和真实建议基本上是 forget your fear about it being consultant early 尽早忘记对成为顾问的恐惧 dig in with some customers actually solve their problem and in the process 与一些客户深入交流，真正解决他们的问题，并在此过程中 maybe you're building some stuff that's went off yeah but you're going to learn 也许你正在构建一些失败的东西，是的，但你会学到东西 a ton about the actual problem and then you'll have some insights on okay what's 关于实际问题的大量信息，然后您将对问题有一些见解 more generalizable what can I do that I can give to everyone and ideally 更概括地说，我能做些什么，我可以为每个人提供最好的帮助 understand the levers in their business that derives economic value like 了解其业务中产生经济价值的杠杆，例如 basically like don't make assumptions that you think you know how they make 基本上就像不要做出你认为你知道他们是如何做的假设 money or should make money yes kind of test those assumptions and once you have 钱或应该赚钱是的，测试这些假设，一旦你有了 a better mental model that it's much it's much more clear how you drive 更好的心理模型，让你的驾驶方式更加清晰 economic value and what's funny is you can even ask them like you can even say 经济价值，有趣的是你甚至可以像你可以说的那样问他们 like how can this help you make more money like you can literally you 就像这如何能帮助你赚更多的钱，就像你真的可以赚更多的钱一样 sometimes Founders are afraid of asking the like the dumb question but that's a 有时创始人害怕问类似愚蠢的问题，但这是一个 00:06 00:06 worthwhile question to ask if you can help your customer make more money 是否可以帮助客户赚更多钱是一个值得问的问题 they're probably gonna like you I think one other area this applies that's 他们可能会喜欢你我认为这适用于另一个领域 counterintuitive is even in your customer Outreach because I think that a 甚至在你的客户外展中也是违反直觉的，因为我认为 lot of times Founders when they're reaching out to 很多时候创始人在接触时 customers even in that moment they're asking for more than they're giving 客户即使在那一刻他们要求的比他们给予的还要多 right we see these emails all the time where you know hey I'm building X Y and 是的，我们一直看到这些电子邮件，你知道嘿我正在构建 X Y 并且 Z software do you have 20 minutes to jump on the phone with me to talk about Z软件你有20分钟的时间跳电话跟我聊聊吗 it you know is that not the definition of asking 你知道这不是询问的定义 well I just want feedback yeah give me feedback your time customer Discovery 好吧，我只是想要反馈，是的，给我反馈你的时间客户发现 yeah your time is clearly worth nothing like and I need you to help me and I 是的，你的时间显然一文不值，我需要你帮助我，我 think one of the things I've seen that works so much better in the initial 想想我见过的一件事在最初的时候效果更好 Outreach is when you actually offer something you should give value up front 外展是指当你真正提供一些东西时，你应该预先给予价值 now we had one company in the current batch that basically was helping with 现在我们当前批次中有一家公司基本上正在帮助 customer onboarding and they did this in 客户入职，他们这样做是在 00:07 00:07 the most simple way they actually took a video of the customer's onboarding flow 他们实际拍摄客户入职流程视频的最简单方法 of the company's onboarding flow and then provided their advice and feedback 了解公司的入职流程，然后提供建议和反馈 on what they could do to make it better now one that's the definition of 他们现在可以做些什么来让它变得更好，这就是 Consulting right two absolutely doesn't scale but when they started sending 咨询右边的两个绝对无法扩展，但是当他们开始发送时 emails with that content in there when they started giving us the first step 当他们开始向我们提供第一步时包含该内容的电子邮件 with a customer started replying saying thank you I can use that like yeah I'm 一位顾客开始回复说谢谢，我可以使用它，就像是的，我是 happy to talk to you about how you're thinking make this even better so I 很高兴与您谈论您的想法如何让这变得更好，所以我 think in Outreach and in building your first products and dealing with your 思考外展、构建你的第一个产品以及处理你的问题 first 10 customers you can give more than you receive let's 您可以给予的前 10 位客户比您收到的更多 put this in historical context though because this giving before you receive 不过，请将其放在历史背景中，因为在您收到之前给予 is not new yeah this is a whole broad topic but just quick crash course the 不是新的，是的，这是一个广泛的话题，但只是快速速成课程 the history of computers involves giving away a lot of value for free 计算机的历史涉及免费赠送大量价值 specifically the original business models of computer companies were to 具体来说，计算机公司最初的商业模式是 sell hardware and software was like a thing you had to give the customer to to 销售硬件和软件就像你必须交给客户的一件事 run the hardware to get value from it yes and so historically software was 运行硬件以从中获取价值是的，所以历史上软件是 00:08 00:08 just free and not really proprietary and this is beyond the scope of this talk 只是免费的而不是真正专有的，这超出了本次演讲的范围 here but if you research the history of Microsoft people in the audience Bill 在这里，但是如果你研究一下观众比尔中微软人的历史 Gates kind of pioneered the guilt trip to get people to pay for things I don't 盖茨开创了内疚之旅，让人们为我不为之付出代价 know go read his letter I'm not going to do a justice but the the the idea of 知道去读他的信我不会伸张正义，但这个想法 proprietary software and charging for it was like maybe the late 70s 专有软件和收费就像 70 年代末 um and you know before that there was the free software movement which equated 嗯，你之前知道有自由软件运动，它等同于 software and code to Freedom many of the tools the power all everything to this 软件和代码的自由许多工具为这一切提供动力 day were created by hippies created by people with big ideals created by people 日子是由嬉皮士创造的，由有远大理想的人们创造的 that wanted to give more value than they 想要提供比他们更多的价值 receive so if you look at the history of GCC of all the compilers if you look at 如果你查看所有编译器的 GCC 历史，就会收到这样的信息 Linux the Linux kernel if anyone runs an Android phone Linux Linux 内核（如果有人运行 Android 手机） that's all free software there'd be no Google there'd be no YouTube without 这都是免费软件，没有 Google 就没有 YouTube Linux powering all the stuff yep um the same would get like every web browser Linux 为所有东西提供动力，是的，就像每个网络浏览器一样 00:09 00:09 gecko cage ttml you can research this thing also um sqlite is this free 壁虎笼 ttml 你也可以研究这个东西 嗯 sqlite 是免费的 database that's in everything like I'll bet to just watch this video stream 数据库无所不在，就像我打赌只看这个视频流一样 sqlite is involved like 50 different ways how many free products do you sqlite 涉及 50 种不同的方式，您有多少免费产品 actually need and so this is part of the history of software and Computing and 实际需要，所以这是软件和计算历史的一部分 technology is to give out all this value and realize the value that it's created 技术就是要给出所有这些价值并实现它所创造的价值 can create enough economic value for the creators for the people that make this 可以为创造者、为创造这个的人们创造足够的经济价值 stuff yes and also just unlock more value in the world than what 是的，而且还可以释放世界上更多的价值 they charge yes right and this is why this is why the graph of how 他们收费是对的，这就是为什么这就是为什么图表如何 technological progress is accelerating so fast is this factor of giving more 技术进步速度如此之快，这就是给予更多的因素 than you receive yes and if you take some of their inspiration when you're 比你收到的是，如果你接受他们的一些灵感，当你 building your products Maybe you can have some wild success yeah I 打造你的产品也许你可以取得一些巨大的成功是的我 think like if you leave a lot of the value on the table for your customers 想想如果你为你的客户留下很多价值 instead of trying to take it all yes then you're in the game and and the key 而不是试图接受一切，是的，那么你就在游戏中，而且关键 let's be clear is your product actually has to solve the 让我们明确的是你的产品实际上必须解决 00:10 00:10 customer's problem like it all comes back to like all those free products all 客户的问题就像所有这些都回到了喜欢所有这些免费产品 the products people pay for they actually solve the customer's problem 人们付费购买的产品实际上解决了客户的问题 and so if you can do that in the early stage instead of being afraid of 所以如果你能在早期阶段做到这一点而不是害怕 consulting or afraid of fundraising bam you have an advantage all right man 咨询或害怕筹款，嗯，你有优势，好吧，伙计 great great chat [Music] 很棒很棒的聊天[音乐]