00:00 00:00 they will take something you know Anonymous arvar 42 said as like gospel 他们会接受你所知道的匿名 arvar 42 所说的就像福音一样 and base their entire life philosophy around it yes yes don't do that don't do 并将他们的整个人生哲学建立在它的基础上 是的 不这样做 不这样做 that all right welcome to dton plus Michael and today we're going to talk 好吧，欢迎来到 dton plus Michael，今天我们要谈谈 about how fast is too fast for moving a startup um I'll start with the story I 关于移动一家初创公司来说，多快才算太快，嗯，我将从我的故事开始 was talking to a YC company could have been this batch could have been a 正在与一家 YC 公司交谈，这批产品可能是 previous batch yeah let's anonymize it we don't want to probably every batch to 上一批是的，我们将其匿名化，我们不想可能每批都这样做 be honest common story and a summary of what they told me was and we got into YC 说实话，他们告诉我的是常见的故事和总结，然后我们就进入了 YC with this idea we called 25 companies mostly startups of course over the last 带着这个想法，我们去年将 25 家公司称为当然大多数是初创公司 two weeks none of them wanted to buy our 两周了他们都不想买我们的 product which doesn't exist it's just an idea and so we decided to 产品并不存在，它只是一个想法，所以我们决定 00:01 00:01 Pivot and so can you help us and people may not know why we think that's funny 枢轴，你能帮助我们吗？人们可能不知道为什么我们认为这很有趣 okay please this is funny to us because that was very low effort yes trying to 好吧，这对我们来说很有趣，因为这是非常低的努力，是的尝试 contact 25 people me like well I guess I 联系 25 个我喜欢的人 我想我 guess we're done I guess no one wants it is so low effort yes as to be funny to 我想我们已经完成了我想没有人希望它如此简单，是的，以至于很有趣 us so carry on with the story what was interesting to me about this was that 我们继续这个故事，让我感兴趣的是 like these two Founders had a vision in their head and 就像这两位创始人脑子里有一个愿景 the second that the path in the startup didn't line up with this Vision in their 第二，初创公司的道路与他们的愿景不相符 head which was that well I think this idea sounds good well I see fun of this 头太好了，我认为这个想法听起来不错，我看到了这个的乐趣 idea so therefore everyone IAL to must think this idea is good they got a 所以每个人都必须认为这个想法很好，他们得到了 little freaked out but then the second thing that I love is that like the 有点吓坏了，但我喜欢的第二件事是 instinct to talk to Startup Founders it was like I want to vet this with startup 与初创公司创始人交谈的本能就好像我想与初创公司一起审查这一点 people often because I feel like it's easier to sell them even though this 人们经常因为我觉得卖掉它们更容易，尽管这样 isn't a problem that startups have the overarching thing was like this was not 这不是初创公司面临的首要问题，就像这不是 00:02 00:02 even rigorous thinking like like where these people used to work if someone 即使是严格的思考，就像这些人过去工作的地方，如果有人 they hired said this to them they would like laugh at them yet they're doing it 他们雇用的人对他们说了这些，他们想嘲笑他们，但他们正在这样做 themselves yeah why do they do this the version of this that I see a lot is 他们自己是的，他们为什么这样做我经常看到的版本是 people the way they start with their company is to cold email a bunch of 人们创办公司的方式就是向一群人发送冷电子邮件 people on LinkedIn they're like okay we're doing our startup we're going LinkedIn 上的人们说，好吧，我们正在创业，我们要去 full-time um well so cool well what are you doing well we we we LinkedIn in in 全职嗯，很好，很酷，很好，你做得怎么样，我们我们 LinkedIn 中 mailed we spammed a thousand people yes and we only got three responses so I 邮寄我们向一千人发送了垃圾邮件是的，我们只收到了三个回复，所以我 guess no one wants this yes and that doesn't work friends like that's not 我猜没有人想要这个，是的，那行不通，朋友，那样不是 sufficient no um this is very superficial validation yeah that people 足够了，不，这是非常肤浅的验证，是的，人们 are doing right like and so I think people do this because no one told them 正在做正确的事情，所以我认为人们这样做是因为没有人告诉他们 differently um here actually here's another one for you on this topic yeah I 不同的是，这里实际上是关于这个主题的另一篇文章，是的，我 think that a lot of people are trained as PMs and they're trained to do user 认为很多人都接受过产品经理培训，并且接受过用户培训 00:03 00:03 research yes and being trained to do user research I remember taking a user 研究 是的，并接受过用户研究培训 我记得带了一个用户 research course in college is you're you are trained to sort of like interview 大学里的研究课程是你接受过类似面试的训练 people rather than sell products to them yep and if you can't even interview 人们而不是向他们出售产品，是的，如果你甚至不能采访 people you're not really sure what to do and so I think my argument is if you've 人们你不太确定该怎么做，所以我想我的论点是如果你 been trained to be a PM or trained to do user interview research you struggle 接受过 PM 培训，或接受过进行用户访谈研究的培训，但您遇到困难 with getting first customers because the skills that you learned to do this 获得第一批客户是因为您学到了做到这一点的技能 research don't don't apply I also think that if you come from a big company 研究不适用 我也认为如果你来自一家大公司 either in product or engineering more often than 无论是在产品还是工程方面都比 not you've never solved your own problem like you're working on other people's 不是你从来没有解决过自己的问题，就像你在解决别人的问题一样 problems and so I think that your instinct when you start a company is 问题所以我认为当你创办公司时你的本能是 like almost a Consulting Instinct I need to go around I had to talk to a lot of 就像咨询本能一样，我需要四处走动，我必须与很多人交谈 people I figure out what their problem is and I have to solve it which I think 人们我弄清楚他们的问题是什么，我认为我必须解决它 is um tricky because it resembles what you did in big Co but it probably 这很棘手，因为它类似于你在大公司所做的事情，但它可能 00:04 00:04 doesn't represent what the founder of your bigco did start their big right 并不代表你的大公司的创始人确实开始了他们的大权利 it's like who should you copy like yourself employee 10,000 or what about 就像你应该效仿谁，比如你自己，员工 10,000 或者怎么样 employee one what did that person do so you know you talk a little bit about 员工一号那个人做了什么，所以你知道你谈论了一些 this concept of when people pivot quickly they they they're not building 当人们快速转向时，他们并不是在建造这个概念 the muscle of building conviction like what talk to us about that you know we 建立信念的力量，例如与我们谈论您知道我们的事情 have a few different metaphors I'll mix them so one of the metaphors is what 有几个不同的隐喻，我将它们混合在一起，所以其中一个隐喻是什么 constitutes a high quality rep yes what constitutes completing full pivot cycle 构成高质量的代表 是 完成完整枢轴周期的构成是什么 yes and to learn anything you need to complete 是的，并学习您需要完成的任何内容 it all the way yes so again like being like we built a product we spammed 10 一路走来，是的，就像我们开发了一个我们发送垃圾邮件 10 的产品一样 people on LinkedIn none of them replied let's throw it all in the trash I am LinkedIn 上的人都没有回复，让我们把它全部扔进垃圾桶吧，我是 arguing that is not a high quality rep no you didn't do anything you didn't 争论这不是一个高质量的代表，不，你没有做任何你没有做的事情 really do anything you didn't really learn anything it was sort of just like 真正做任何你没有真正学到任何东西的事情，有点像 a waste of everyone's time you did you did spend time so that's you're right 你所做的浪费了每个人的时间你确实花了时间所以你是对的 00:05 00:05 okay you wasted time and so congrat the the metaphor I sometimes like to tell 好吧，你浪费了时间，所以恭喜我有时喜欢讲的比喻 people when they're pivoting is the most important customer is 员工在转型时最重要的客户是 yourself and the founder psychology thing you want to do is build conviction 你自己和创始人心理学你想做的就是建立信念 in your own mind that this thing is worth working on yes and so it's not to 在你自己看来，这件事值得努力，是的，所以不应该 make investors happy or your YC partner happy yes or whatever it's to convince 让投资者高兴或者让你的 YC 合作伙伴高兴是的或者无论什么都可以说服 your brain that more time spent on this idea is time well spent another way I 你的大脑认为在这个想法上花更多的时间是值得的，我以另一种方式度过了时间 like to think about that is to convince yourself this customer is worth helping 喜欢思考这一点就是要说服自己这个客户值得帮助 yeah like you're going to enjoy spending 是的，就像你会享受消费一样 time with this customer and I find a lot of Founders kind of want to skip that 与这位客户相处的时间，我发现很多创始人都想跳过这个过程 part yeah oh I just want to be in this industry I just want to I just want them 是的，哦，我只是想进入这个行业，我只是想，我只是想要他们 to buy my thing I don't want I don't like like don't talk to me I don't 买我的东西 我不想要 我不喜欢 别跟我说话 我不喜欢 really care about just buy my thing make my number go up and I want to raise my 真的很关心只是买我的东西让我的数字上升，我想提高我的 series a it's like and and so in terms of like founder personality traits or A 系列就像创始人的人格特质或 00:06 00:06 things you can develop I think a lot of times how good of a programmer you are 你可以开发的东西我很多时候都在想你是一个多么优秀的程序员 is one thing how good you are at sales how good you are at fundraising all 你的销售能力有多强是一回事 你的筹款能力有多强 these things are like you know important yes but someone that has low conviction 这些事情就像你知道很重要，是的，但信念不高的人 and struggles to ever build conviction on anything even if they're great at all 并努力对任何事情建立信念，即使它们很伟大 those other factors not going to make it isn't that crazy versus there's people 那些其他因素不会让它变得疯狂，因为有人 that are worse at some of those other things imagine this this was like a 在其他一些事情上更糟糕想象一下这就像 baseball card of their skills not the best programmer not the best salesperson 他们的技能棒球卡不是最好的程序员不是最好的销售人员 not the best fundraiser but very high conviction and able to focus their 不是最好的筹款活动，但信念非常高，能够集中精力 energy One Direction in a superhuman way those people to have succeed case in 能量一个方向以超人的方式那些人有成功的案例 point Justin Khan my co-founder I I totally agree and what's 我的联合创始人贾斯汀·汗 (Justin Khan) 的观点我完全同意，什么是 funny is like every good startup team has at least one of those people you 有趣的是，每个优秀的创业团队都至少有一个你喜欢的人 need one yes yes you need that and and the too cool for school teams where it's 需要一个 是的，你需要这个，而且对于学校团队来说太酷了 like oh no like I can't I can't be to into anything right like my bar is super 就像哦，不，我不能，我不能做任何事情，就像我的酒吧超级棒一样 high it's like sorry you'll just you'll pivot to you run out of speed right and 高，就像抱歉，你只会转向你的速度，然后 00:07 00:07 and so like let's talk about exactly what conviction means I think it doesn't 所以让我们来谈谈信念到底意味着什么我认为它并不 mean believing in things religiously exactly it's more of not letting 意味着虔诚地相信事物，确切地说，更多的是不让 yourself get blown off course so this happens to us a lot we've seen this at 你自己会偏离航线，所以这种情况经常发生在我们身上，我们已经在以下网站看到过这种情况 YC a Founder is working on an idea that it's going well they go to fundraise the YC 创始人正在研究一个想法，进展顺利，他们去筹集资金 fundrais is hard what happens if you're not high conviction y got to Pivot got 筹款很难，如果你没有坚定的信念，会发生什么？ they give up so if just meeting with investors causes you to give up causes 他们会放弃，所以如果仅仅与投资者会面就导致你放弃事业 you to give up on your idea by definition I'm arguing you don't have 从定义上来说，你要放弃你的想法，我认为你没有 high conviction yes because you're blown off course if every time you talk to a 高度确信是的，因为如果每次你与一个人交谈，你就会偏离轨道 new customer you decide to change your product that is low conviction you do 新客户，您决定改变您的产品，但您的信念很低 not have conviction let's go back to the 没有信念让我们回到 investor one the thing that I hate about 投资者一号是我讨厌的事情 that investor one is that if you look at the history of really big companies so 投资者之一是，如果你看看真正大公司的历史，那么 many of them most investors thought that the idea was horrible yes so it's like 大多数投资者都认为这个想法很糟糕，是的，所以就像 empirically a lot of investors thinking your idea is horrible is not necessarily 从经验上看，很多投资者认为你的想法很糟糕，但这并不一定 00:08 00:08 a bad sign correct yeah it's not necessarily a good 一个不好的迹象，正确，是的，这不一定是一个好兆头 sign either by the way we're not arguing hey if it's bad then it must be good 要么签名，要么我们不争论，嘿，如果它是坏的，那么它一定是好的 we're not seeing that it it's more of a neutral like it's it's it's it's not a 我们没有看到它更像是一个中立的，就像它是它不是一个 key indicator either way I might arue but when you take it as a key when it's 不管怎样，我可能会同意关键指标，但是当你把它当作关键时， the only key indicator yeah oh it's so it's almost like when you spend all your 唯一的关键指标是的哦，所以这几乎就像当你花掉所有的钱时 time trying to triangulate what other people say is good and that's how you 是时候尝试三角测量其他人所说的好话了，这就是你的方式 decide what startup idea to work on yeah you're going to have a bad time so I 决定要研究什么创业想法是的，你会度过一段糟糕的时光，所以我 think that um I've been trying to unpack hack why do people do this and and more 认为嗯，我一直在尝试解开黑客为什么人们这样做以及更多 specifically like why do people kind of think logically and rationally in their 特别喜欢为什么人们在他们的生活中进行逻辑和理性的思考 job and then come to their startup and just their quality of thinking decreases 工作，然后开始创业，只是他们的思维质量下降了 by 90% And you know you have I talked about this before you know a big thing 90% 你知道你已经在你知道一件大事之前我就谈到了这个 is fear and in the context of the YC batch I noticed a big thing specifically 是恐惧，在 YC 批次的背景下，我特别注意到一件大事 related to fear is I literally like fake information you know I had a company 与恐惧相关的是，我确实喜欢虚假信息，你知道我有一家公司 00:09 00:09 told me like oh man well we started looking at this problem and realized it 告诉我天哪，我们开始研究这个问题并意识到了这一点 was going to take a little while to build and you know we looked at our 需要一些时间来构建，你知道我们查看了我们的 batch and 75% of the companies already have launched products that are growing 批量且75%的公司已经推出了正在增长的产品 and we were like we can't and I'm like wait wait wait wait pause I was like he 我们好像不能，我就像等一下，等一下，暂停一下，我就像他一样 said it with such conviction for a second I was like wow that's a good job 有那么一瞬间，我怀着如此坚定的信念说，哇，这真是一份好工作 we're killing 75% already launched the badge hasn't started yet and then I was 我们正在消灭 75% 已经推出的徽章还没有开始，然后我就 like wait like why do you like why do you think that and they were like I just 就像等等，你为什么喜欢你为什么这么想，他们就像我一样 assumed I was like just making up yeah and I was like you can look well 我以为我只是在化妆，是的，我就像你可以看起来很好 and this is what's funny for the founders that read a lot of Twitter or 对于那些阅读大量 Twitter 或文章的创始人来说，这很有趣。 Reddit or blogs is they will take something you know Anonymous arvar 42 Reddit 或博客是他们会采取你知道的东西 匿名 arvar 42 said as like gospel and base their entire life philosophy around 说得像福音一样，并以他们的整个人生哲学为基础 it yes don't do that don't do that especially when you can look up the real 是的，不要这样做，不要这样做，尤其是当你可以查找真实的 00:10 00:10 answer like you can tell which company like when you're in the y b you can tell 回答得好像你可以知道是哪家公司一样，当你在你可以知道的时候 which companies are launched which ones aren the other one was well an Alum told 一位校友告诉我们，哪些公司成立了，哪些公司又成立了 me I won't be able to raise without you know $10,000 in Mr and it was 如果你不知道 Mr 的 10,000 美元，我就无法筹集资金 interesting because I had to sit down with this founder and say really simply 有趣的是，因为我不得不和这位创始人坐下来，简单地说 some companies enter the batch with a post-launch product with users some 一些公司以发布后的产品进入该批次，并获得了一些用户的认可 companies will enter the batch with an idea if you were a rational investor 如果您是理性投资者，公司将带着想法进入批次 would you judge those two different companies with the same exact rubric 你会用同样的标准来评判这两家不同的公司吗 they of course not and I was like okay and if an investor did would you not 他们当然不会，我当时想，好吧，如果投资者这样做了，你会不会 call them kind of dumb and maybe wouldn't want to work with them like 称他们有点愚蠢，也许不想和他们一起工作 yeah so then why are you doing that of course the expectations are different 是的，那么你为什么要这样做呢？当然期望是不同的 from something that comes into a batch with just an idea but I think that these 来自一批只有一个想法的东西，但我认为这些 kind of false expectations yeah create the fear and then the fear creates the 一种错误的期望是的，创造了恐惧，然后恐惧创造了 bad thinking and then it's like once you're in bad thinking you're you're 糟糕的想法，然后就好像一旦你陷入糟糕的想法，你就是你了 00:11 00:11 kind of fine I love that technique uh that you just mentioned I like to do 有点好，我喜欢你刚才提到的那种技巧，我喜欢这样做 this one sometimes too when someone is trying to get a first customer yeah 当有人试图获得第一个客户时有时也会出现这种情况是的 which is like okay in your past job your team evaluated different 这就像在你过去的工作中你的团队对你的评价不同一样 software to buy right yes yes and i' be like so you have actually been on the 正确购买软件 是的，我想你实际上已经在 other side of the customer conversations 客户对话的另一面 a lot yeah so which of the sales tactics that you're trying would have worked on 很多是的，那么您正在尝试的哪种销售策略会起作用 you like how often do you respond to cold emails on 您喜欢多久回复一次冷邮件 LinkedIn yeah oh never okay with name kind of poorly replaced in the template LinkedIn 是的，哦，模板中的名字替换得不好，从来都不好 is that like and suddenly their brain the gears in their brain re-engage with 是不是就像他们的大脑突然重新啮合 like oh we evaluated things all the time and we would do this and I had the like 就像哦，我们一直在评估事情，我们会这样做，我有类似的想法 like and i' be like so basically you're actually an expert at understanding your 就像我一样 所以基本上你实际上是了解你的事情的专家 customer because you bought a lot of software on the other side of the table 客户，因为你在桌子的另一边买了很多软件 yes what if you just tried to come up with with tactics that would have worked 是的，如果你只是尝试想出可行的策略怎么办 on you and would have made you buy your product and they'll like stop and be 他们会喜欢停下来，让你购买你的产品 like I've never thought of that before yeah and so that's actually actually a 就像我以前从未想过这一点是的，所以这实际上是一个 00:12 00:12 really great technique is to remember back when you've been on the 真正伟大的技巧是记住当你在 buy side for stff yes and think about what have appealed to what would have 购买方是的，并考虑一下什么吸引了什么 appealed to you or got you over the line and then that screens out a lot of this 吸引了你或者让你越线了，然后就屏蔽掉了很多这样的内容 junk because the low effort pivots if you run the thought experiment they'd be 垃圾，因为如果你进行思想实验，低努力就会发生变化 like oh yeah I would never buy this I think what's so funny is like when the 就像哦，是的，我永远不会买这个，我想最有趣的是当 founder has that realization oh I actually am an expert 创始人有这样的认识哦，我实际上是一个专家 in this like oh I can actually lean on my expertise the thing I often say next 在这种情况下，哦，我实际上可以依靠我的专业知识，接下来我经常说的话 is like and that's why we funded you like yeah like it's like almost like 就像这就是为什么我们资助你就像是的就像这就像几乎就像 they didn't realize that we funded them because they knew something about the 他们没有意识到我们资助他们，因为他们了解一些关于 topic they were pitching and then when they want to Pivot really clack we're 他们正在推销的主题，然后当他们想要转向时，我们真的很高兴 like wow now you're moving into an area you know nothing about and we have to 就像哇，现在你要进入一个你一无所知的地区，我们必须这样做 like hey remember like remember you know you knowu here like others will respect 就像嘿记住就像记住你知道你知道你在这里就像其他人会尊重一样 that too like your customers so no I think this is um it's so tricky cuz fear 这也像你的顾客所以不，我认为这很棘手，因为害怕 00:13 00:13 really just everything but I do think this is one of the 真的就是一切，但我确实认为这是其中之一 reasons why um I like the new YC standard deal because I think that 我喜欢新的 YC 标准交易的原因是因为我认为 before Founders would be like well if I don't reason demid I'm and now I 以前，如果我不推理的话，创始人会像现在这样，但现在我 can just say to them it's like look imagine no raise in Dem you have 可以对他们说，想象一下，民主党没有加薪 half a million dollars you're fine like there is no gun the only gun to your 五十万美元，你就没事，就像没有枪一样，你唯一的枪 head is the one you're lifting because you keeping over and over again and you 头是你抬起的那个，因为你一遍又一遍地保持，并且你 never build conviction like when you're low conviction yeah money ain't going to 永远不要像你信心不足时那样建立信念是的，钱是不会的 money's not your problem so sometimes it's like hey Founders just put the gun 钱不是你的问题，所以有时就像创始人把枪放好一样 down all right so we often encounter these companies and we've talked about 好吧，所以我们经常遇到这些公司，我们也谈到过 this before companies that get into pivot itis right and got a bad case bad 在进入关键时期的公司之前，这是正确的，但遇到了糟糕的情况 case of pivot itis right and I think what's interesting is that like a 枢轴的情况是正确的，我认为有趣的是，就像 company that will build something learn over a period of time and then pivot 公司将在一段时间内进行学习，然后进行转型 will often pivot from a place of knowledge and like actually continue to 通常会从知识的角度出发，并且实际上会继续 00:14 00:14 make forward progress but we also see uh uh a different version H how would you 取得进展，但我们也看到呃呃不同的版本H你会怎么样 describe that version yeah have you heard the term random walk people like 描述那个版本是的，你听说过人们喜欢的“随机游走”这个词吗？ so Random walk is where you use like a random number generator to decide which 所以随机游走就是你使用随机数生成器来决定哪个 direction you go and basically when you random walk you actually never get 你走的方向基本上当你随机行走时你实际上永远不会得到 anywhere like imagine a starting point and then you walk one direction and you 任何地方，比如想象一个起点，然后你朝一个方向走，然后你 roll the dice and you choose a different direction you do that over and over 掷骰子，你选择不同的方向，然后一遍又一遍地这样做 again yep you never get anywhere that's kind of like emailing 25 startups and 再说一次，是的，你永远不会像向 25 家初创公司发送电子邮件那样取得任何进展 asking them if they like your idea a little bit it's a little random right 询问他们是否喜欢你的想法有点随意，对吧 doing that again and then doing that again and doing that yeah and and what 再做一次，然后再做一次，然后再做一次，是的，还有什么 happens is imagine you're like you know a rowboat in the middle of the ocean 发生的是想象你就像你知道大海中央的一艘划艇 trying to get back to land if you just keep changing direction every every once 如果你每次都不断改变方向，试图返回陆地 in a while you're never going to get you're going to be lost at sea and so 过一段时间你就永远无法明白，你将会迷失在大海中，所以 you kind of have to get on a vector that even if you have to change a little bit 你必须进入一个向量，即使你必须改变一点点 yeah there's some forward progress you're making in some specific Direction 是的，你在某个特定方向上取得了一些进展 and I think that what we see that's so unfortunate is that when you do that 我认为我们所看到的非常不幸的是当你这样做时 00:15 00:15 random walk enough you just run out of energy Y and you know I always see it 随机游走足够多，你就会耗尽能量 Y，你知道我总是看到它 like somewhere in like one and a half to two years if you don't feel like you've 如果你不觉得自己已经经历了一年半到两年的时间 learned anything and you've spent two years kind of doing the 学到了任何东西，并且你花了两年的时间来做 thing one your experience isn't going to be good no two you won't feel like use 第一件事你的体验不会很好，第二件事你不会想使用 the time well but three you're just going to be tired and for no good reason 时间很好，但三点你就会毫无理由地感到疲倦 you can be tired for no good reason and well you've never sunk your teeth in 你可能会无缘无故地感到疲倦，但你从来没有咬紧牙关 anything so it's like you're you feel like you've been running a race 任何事，就像你在参加一场比赛 but that if it's like so what have you learned they're like 但如果是这样的话你知道他们是什么样的吗 well learn what not to do yeah like it's 我们要学会什么不该做，是的，就像这样 harder it's kind of harder to articulate 越难，就越难以表达 why that was a good use of your time yes no and I think that what's sad is that 为什么这很好地利用了你的时间 是 不 我认为令人难过的是 oftentimes those people have a very bad memory of startups right yeah and um I 通常这些人对初创公司的记忆很糟糕，是的，嗯，我 wish they didn't like the folks who learned and didn't succeed are often 希望他们不喜欢那些学习但没有成功的人 00:16 00:16 motivated to go out and do it again or go work in a company in that space like 有动力出去再做一次，或者去像这样的公司工作 this is an additive experience in their life even if their shut up didn't work 即使他们的闭嘴不起作用，这也是他们生活中的一种附加体验 the ones who do the random walk like they realize man this probably 那些进行随机游走的人就像他们意识到的那样，这可能是 wasn't a good use of my time so anyways I think that the last point I always 没有很好地利用我的时间，所以无论如何，我认为我总是 like to bring up here is another version of this kind of random walk or email 25 我想在这里提出的是这种随机游走的另一个版本或电子邮件 25 people then pivot is like launch a product that will help no one yep and 人们然后转向就像推出一种产品，不会帮助任何人，是的， then pivot and and in the Founder's mind they'll say well I launched an MVP and 然后转向，在创始人的心目中，他们会说我推出了 MVP， nobody wanted it and you know we talked about this earlier it's like is it an 没有人想要它，你知道我们之前讨论过这个，就像它是一个 MVP MVP is one of those terms where we people say it so much it's assumed that MVP MVP 是我们人们常说的术语之一，人们认为 there's an agreed upon definition yeah but when you ask for details I am not 有一个商定的定义是的，但是当你询问细节时我不是 convinced there's an agreed upon definition of MVP so what's your 确信 MVP 的定义已经达成一致，那么您的定义是什么 definition of MVP well you know I I think that I used to not assume I had to MVP 的定义 你知道吗 我想我过去并不认为我必须这么做 00:17 00:17 define it narrowly but now that I think about it if you 狭隘地定义它，但现在我想如果你 can't get anyone to use your MVP it's probably not an MVP well it's not the V 无法让任何人使用你的 MVP 这可能不是 MVP 也不是 V we're missing the V which is viable yeah like basically if it doesn't work for 我们缺少 V ，它是可行的，是的，基本上，如果它不起作用 anyone yeah how it is hard to argue that 任何人 是的 很难争论 is viable no and like shouldn't an MV it seems like the cool thing about an MVP 是可行的 不，就像 MV 不应该那样，这似乎是 MVP 的酷事 is you can do things that don't scale and cheat like you can make it you can 你可以做一些不规模化和作弊的事情，就像你可以做到的那样 kind of will it to work for one person right so the fact that it doesn't work 一种对一个人有效的意愿，所以事实上它不起作用 for one person usually means that like you weren't even trying to make it work 对于一个人来说通常意味着你甚至没有试图让它发挥作用 for them like you were trying to do something else this is a this is 对于他们来说，就像你试图做其他事情一样，这是 something that comes up a lot when I'm reading applications or in interviews 当我阅读申请或面试时经常出现的事情 for specifically developer tools you ready yeah it'll be like oh cool so I 对于专门的开发工具，你准备好了是的，它会像哦酷所以我 built this tool and it helps your code and you're way more efficient and it's 构建了这个工具，它可以帮助您的代码，并且您的效率会更高，而且 better and it's you know we're building our MVP and like we're getting we're 更好，你知道我们正在打造 MVP，就像我们正在得到的那样 we're emailing people on LinkedIn now yeah what is the question I asked 我们现在正在 LinkedIn 上向人们发送电子邮件，是的，我问的问题是什么 Michael do do you use it yourself yes I will say great so tell me about your 迈克尔，你自己用吗？是的，我会说很好，所以请告诉我你的情况 00:18 00:18 usage of it yeah and they'll be like they'll be like okay so let me get 使用它是的，他们会觉得他们会很好所以让我知道 this straight this is helping programmers and you're out selling it 这直接帮助了程序员，而你却把它卖掉了 you're trying to get stone cold strangers to use it but it's not good 你试图让冷酷的陌生人使用它，但这并不好 enough for you to use yet right and then is that what you're were saying usually 足够你使用了，然后就是你通常所说的 there like well it doesn't have like they can list the thing well it doesn't 那里好像没有，就像他们可以很好地列出它没有的东西一样 have this this and I mean like I would never use it and so the argument the 有这个，我的意思是我永远不会使用它，所以这个论点 earnest point is you should at least be able to use your own tool yes and be 认真的一点是你至少应该能够使用你自己的工具是的并且是 proud to use it or feel like it's providing some value the V and the it's 自豪地使用它或感觉它提供了一些价值 V 及其 viable for you yes and if you can't even 对你来说可行 是的，如果你甚至不能 get your you can't bring yourself to use your own product it's a little weird to 得到你的 你不能让自己使用你自己的产品，这有点奇怪 be trying to sell it to people more than 试图将其出售给超过 a little more than a little weird and so that should be the bar for a lot of 有点奇怪，所以这应该是很多人的标准 folks is that they are willing to use their own product yes right that's a 人们愿意使用自己的产品，是的，这是一个 good bar for especially I mean if it's solving your own problem then like at a 很好的酒吧，尤其是我的意思是，如果它能解决您自己的问题，那么就像在 minimum yeah that doesn't apply there's some that doesn't apply in some cases 最低限度 是的，不适用 有一些在某些情况下不适用 but for a lot of things at a minimum you should should be able to use it so yes 但至少对于很多事情你应该能够使用它所以是的 00:19 00:19 so once we started looking at it this way I started realizing like how many 所以一旦我们开始以这种方式看待它，我就开始意识到有多少 companies never build an MVP cuz that that's like it's typically seen as kind 公司从不建立 MVP，因为这通常被视为友善 of like the first real baby step right and how many folks never get there they 就像迈出真正的第一步一样，有多少人从未到达那里 never made one customer happy and sometimes when I talk to Founders who 从来没有让一位客户感到高兴，有时当我与创始人交谈时 have these big high fluen plans like I bring it back to like can we just one 有这些大型的高流畅计划，就像我把它带回来一样，我们可以只做一个吗 can we just go one you know the path to 10 million 我们可以走一条你知道的通向 1000 万之路吗 happy users yeah let's talk about that later for today how about one one and 快乐的用户是的，我们今天晚些时候再讨论一下，一一怎么样？ you know you can't do that like you can you can everyone can do that yeah so um 你知道你不能像你一样做到你可以每个人都可以做到是的所以嗯 maybe the long story short here is that one it's going to take maybe longer than 也许长话短说，这可能需要比 you think so don't have expectations that screw you up two fear makes you think 你是这样想的 不要抱有让你搞砸的期望 两个恐惧让你思考 00:20 00:20 real bad like don't let fear turn a really smart person into a not very 真正糟糕的是不要让恐惧把一个真正聪明的人变成一个不太聪明的人 smart person three man it helps to solve your own problem and then to be your 聪明人三人，它有助于解决你自己的问题，然后成为你的 first customer that's a good bar at least you could say you did that you 第一个顾客是一个很好的酒吧至少你可以说你做到了 know if you're doing a random vog maybe start with um and then four 知道你是否正在做随机 vog 可能以 um 开头，然后是 4 like understand that like you're got to do you called it a good rep make the 就像明白，就像你必须做的那样，你称其为良好的代表 analogy because in lifting like make the 类比，因为在举升中，就像使 analogy yeah I think it would just be um in any kind of exercise or movement if 类比是的，我认为在任何类型的锻炼或运动中，如果 you want to build strength you want to like have good form yeah and 你想要增强力量 你想要拥有良好的状态 是的 you won't get better if your form is bad or you might even injure yourself 如果你的状态不好，你就不会好转，甚至可能会受伤 actually right like if you want to learn I don't know how to swing a golf club 实际上是对的，就像如果你想学习我不知道如何挥动高尔夫球杆一样 yep and your form is bad a you probably won't learn and B you might injure 是的，你的姿势很糟糕，a 你可能学不会，B 你可能会受伤 yourself yeah and you're not going to have fun you're definitely not going to 你自己是的，你不会玩得很开心，你绝对不会 have fun so you kind of want to have good form yeah when you're trying to do 玩得开心，所以你想要保持良好的状态，是的，当你尝试做的时候 something that's hard run a good rep I like it all right man great chat cool 很难的事情 运行良好的代表 我喜欢它，好吧，伙计，聊天很棒，很酷 00:21 00:21 thanks man [Music] a 谢谢伙计[音乐]