00:00 00:00 let's just start with quick intro so Linda after you hi I'm Linda I'm 让我们从快速介绍开始吧，琳达，你好之后，我是琳达，我是 co-founder of a crypto hedge fund called scalar capital we focus on long-term 名为标量资本的加密货币对冲基金的联合创始人，我们专注于长期 investing this space with the strong emphasis on privacy coins and then 投资这个空间时重点关注隐私币，然后 before that I was a product manager at coinbase 在此之前我是 coinbase 的产品经理 joined pretty early on and just been passionate about crypto currencies for a 很早就加入并且对加密货币充满热情 very long time cool hey I'm a virtual serial entrepreneur part time at YC I'm in 很长一段时间很酷，嘿，我是 YC 的兼职虚拟连续创业者，我在 crypto since 2013 actively invest in currencies and various companies and 自 2013 年以来加密货币积极投资于货币和各种公司 this is a where I spend a lot of my time thinking about the way things are going 这是我花了很多时间思考事情进展方式的地方 and what the future holds and where we'll end up in the next 10 years cuz I 未来会怎样，以及未来 10 年我们会走向何方，因为我 think this is a pretty fascinating area cool well it sounds like you guys are 认为这是一个非常迷人的领域，很酷，听起来你们就是这样 the right people because we have a ton of crypto questions and let's start with 合适的人，因为我们有很多加密问题，让我们从 definitions I know a lot of the listeners probably know or have a loose 我知道很多听众可能都知道或者有一个松散的定义 understanding of what blockchain with Bitcoin all this stuff is but just so we 了解区块链和比特币所有这些东西是什么，但我们只是这样 establish kind of a ground truth Linda why don't we start with you 建立一个基本事实琳达我们为什么不从你开始 00:01 00:01 what is a blockchain a blockchain is essentially a decentralized public 什么是区块链 区块链本质上是一个去中心化的公共 ledger where you can have a recording of all the transactions that have happened 分类帐，您可以记录所有已发生的交易 on it without having a centralized entity that's kind of dictating what 没有一个集中的实体来决定什么 what happens or someone that can manipulate the data and all of this is 发生了什么或者有人可以操纵数据，所有这一切都是 just done in a decentralized fashion so you don't have to trust who's actually 只是以去中心化的方式完成，所以你不必相信谁是真正的 controlling this data what are the other 控制这些数据还有哪些 things that people ought to know I think that so it's important to separate like 人们应该知道的事情我认为所以分开很重要 a crypto currency from new new coins that have come out that are essentially 一种来自新硬币的加密货币，这些新硬币本质上是 people refer them it's crypto assets because it's essentially more than just 人们将其称为加密资产，因为它本质上不仅仅是 money at this point so aetherium is a smart contracts 金钱在这一点上所以以太坊是一个智能合约 platform and smart contracts are essentially you can think of it just 平台和智能合约本质上都是你能想到的 like a contract that is essentially just 就像一份合同，本质上只是 programmable logic where you essentially have a decentralized network of 可编程逻辑，您本质上拥有一个分散的网络 computers that's executing this logic without having to rely on a centralized 执行此逻辑的计算机无需依赖集中式 source that can get shut down or manipulate the information or data so a 可以关闭或操纵信息或数据的源，以便 smart contract in itself is just really important and you can kind of if you 智能合约本身非常重要，如果你 want to compare it to Bitcoin just think of it as a bit more powerful than 想要将它与比特币进行比较，只是认为它比比特币更强大一点 00:02 00:02 Bitcoin and that you can be a little bit more programmable anything dad yeah the 比特币，你可以变得更加可编程，任何东西爸爸是的 way I think that's great I agree with everything linda said so far I think the 我认为这很棒 我同意琳达到目前为止所说的一切 我认为 way I think about it there's like four core concepts there's blockchain which 我认为有四个核心概念：区块链 is I think Linda covered well as distributed ledger and 我认为 Linda 很好地涵盖了分布式账本 a bunch of properties around who can read it and how you write to the ledger 关于谁可以读取它以及如何写入分类帐的一系列属性 and so on I think there's this notion of consensus which is how do we all agree 等等我认为有一种共识的概念，这就是我们如何达成一致 on what gets written to the blockchain and what the universal truth is and 关于写入区块链的内容以及普遍真理是什么以及 there are different mechanisms to agree on on the truth there's the idea of a 有不同的机制可以就真相达成一致 token or token economics which is how do we align the incentives of all the 代币或代币经济学，即我们如何调整所有参与者的激励措施 actors in the space and there are different mechanisms to aligning the 该领域的参与者有不同的机制来调整 incentives and then I think there's the smart contracting layer which is assume 激励措施，然后我认为有一个智能合约层，假设 you have a ledger and you have tokens and people who are agreeing on the state 你有一个分类账，你有代币和就状态达成一致的人 of the universe what what degree of control and program ability do we give 我们给予宇宙什么程度的控制和编程能力 on top of that to the users of the blockchain other programmers to do 最重要的是区块链用户其他程序员要做的事情 interesting things on top of that which is I think where things like 最重要的是我认为有趣的事情 programmable money or distributed compute it really interesting those are 可编程货币或分布式计算真的很有趣，它们是 kind of like the four things that I think about in this universe and you can 有点像我在这个宇宙中思考的四件事，你可以 kind of mash them together in different ways and different chains mash them 有点以不同的方式将它们混在一起，不同的链将它们混在一起 00:03 00:03 together into guys yeah absolutely so we should explain those there are many use 一起变成男人是的，绝对所以我们应该解释那些有很多用途 cases for distributed Ledger's for programmable money all of these things 分布式账本的可编程货币的案例所有这些 can we let's break those apart and we had a ton of questions about it but just 我们可以把它们分开吗？我们对此有很多疑问，但只是 from broad broad strokes what are the use cases you guys see especially 从广义上讲，你们特别看到的用例是什么 whenever there's a middleman that's doing programming logic and saying 每当有一个中间人正在执行编程逻辑并说 if-then condition and is charging fries for that you can replace them with a if-then 条件并且正在为薯条充电，您可以将其替换为 smart contract so there's plenty of use cases for that and financial system 智能合约，因此该合约和金融系统有很多用例 health care legal system so I I view that is really powerful of just 医疗保健法律体系所以我认为这确实非常强大 automating things and allowing - there to not be a centralized point of failure 自动化事物并允许 - 不存在集中的故障点 and I think that's one of the most important parts of what this produces 我认为这是它所产生的最重要的部分之一 yeah I think I level the way I think about it is there there are kind of 是的，我想我的思考方式是有的 three buckets there are there's essentially programmable money and 三个桶本质上是可编程的钱 there's a bunch of different facets of that there's privacy or they're smart 有很多不同的方面，有隐私或者他们很聪明 contracts can be used as escrow and you could argue icos effectively are in 合约可以用作托管，你可以说 icos 实际上是在 00:04 00:04 escrow or you're like locking up some sum and then you can do something with 托管或者你想锁定一些金额，然后你可以用 on the other side so it's kind of like programmable money is like one bucket of 另一方面，这有点像可编程货币就像一桶 use cases just you really compute is another bucket of use cases like you can 您真正计算的用例是另一类用例，就像您可以的那样 use all these computers all around the world to execute code and then the third 使用世界各地所有这些计算机来执行代码，然后是第三个 bucket is distributed apps so things like prediction markets or distributed 存储桶是分布式应用程序，因此诸如预测市场或分布式应用程序之类的东西 VPN networks and and that's kind of the third bucket of use cases and I think VPN 网络，这是第三种用例，我认为 pretty much everything I've seen so far con falls into one of those three and 到目前为止我所看到的几乎所有内容都属于这三个之一 sometimes there's a little an overlap you could be kind of in two 有时会有一点重叠，你可能会分成两部分 buckets but a high label I think those are the three buckets I think about cool 水桶，但标签很高，我认为这就是我认为很酷的三个水桶 and so to jump into a question from Twitter 所以跳到 Twitter 上的一个问题 JPS what are the top use cases you guys think are gonna go mainstream in three JPS 你们认为哪些最重要的用例将在三个时期内成为主流 years and mainstream maybe caveat it by like within this community but yeah yeah 多年和主流也许会在这个社区内警告它，但是是的，是的 the two ones that I think will come in streamer decentralize exchange and and 我认为这两个将出现在流媒体去中心化交换中 probably gaming something along the lines of collectibles so decentralize 可能会玩一些类似于收藏品的游戏，所以去中心化 just define collectibles like what's an example of that that's been out in the 只需定义收藏品，就像已经出现的例子一样 00:05 00:05 world right so out in the world in the crypto community there's been crypto 世界是对的，所以在加密货币社区的世界里已经有了加密货币 kitties so you can collect a unique digital cat on the blockchain and so 猫咪，这样你就可以在区块链上收集一只独特的数字猫等等 that can never be destroyed you own that permanently and so that just got really 它永远不会被摧毁，你永远拥有它，所以它真的变得如此 popular people were kind of just collecting it like just digital beanie 受欢迎的人就像收集数字无檐小便帽一样收集它 babies in a way you can breed them together and produce new unique cats but 婴儿可以以某种方式让它们一起繁殖并产生新的独特的猫，但是 people just love collecting things in general I mean that's a that's been very 人们只是喜欢收集一般的东西我的意思是这是一个非常 common with like stamps and coins and cars like people just love collecting 常见于邮票、硬币和汽车等，就像人们喜欢收藏一样 and now and you have a society where you 现在你有一个社会 can just collect everything in a digital 可以收集数字中的所有内容 manner and you can freely trade this and so that pairs well to me with the 的方式，你可以自由地交易这个，这样就可以很好地与我搭配 centralized exchange because so for context I worked at a centralized 集中式交易所，因为就上下文而言，我在一个集中式交易所工作 exchange where you essentially have this exchange controlling user funds and so 交易所本质上是让这个交易所控制用户资金等等 coinbase is really trustworthy and I'm fine I'm storing my phone's on coinbase coinbase 确实值得信赖，我很好，我将手机存储在 coinbase 上 but there are a lot of centralized exchanges out there that have risk of 但有很多中心化交易所存在风险 getting hacked or getting shun tapping regulators running with user funds so 遭到黑客攻击或回避利用用户资金运行的监管机构，因此 there's there's risk on the custody side there's also some barriers to entry if 托管方面存在风险，如果存在进入壁垒， 00:06 00:06 you live in a jurisdiction that just something like coinbase doesn't support 你生活在一个像 coinbase 这样的东西不支持的司法管辖区 or you don't have the right documentation so I'm really excited 或者你没有正确的文档所以我真的很兴奋 about decentralized exchange because you can now have a bunch of people that can 关于去中心化交易，因为你现在可以有一群人可以 participate in these markets and trade anything they want yeah trade digital 参与这些市场并交易他们想要的任何东西 yes trade digital cats if they want and it's it's really cool and so more people could just 如果他们想要猫的话，这真的很酷，所以更多的人可以 participate in the network at this point 此时参与网络 yeah I think the same thing is true like are those of the UC use cases that 是的，我认为同样的事情也是如此，就像 UC 用例一样 happen in the next couple years yeah I think both of those will happen the the 是的，我认为这两件事都会在未来几年发生 two others I'd add or the the big one the other big one I'd add basically is 我要添加的另外两个或大的一个我要添加的另一个大的基本上是 is programmable money I think like payment the payment rails will all get 是可编程货币，我认为就像支付一样，支付轨道都会得到 built out things like lightning network and plasma or zero fee payment networks 建立了诸如闪电网络和等离子网络或零费用支付网络之类的东西 that are coming and I think the merchant side of those 即将到来，我认为其中的商人方面 things will continue to get better and so I think payments as a category stuff 事情会继续变得更好，所以我认为支付作为一个类别的东西 will happen and then kind of privacy as a subset of that to I think private 将会发生，然后某种隐私作为我认为私人的一部分 privacy tokens are actually a thing if you talk to a lot of people 如果你和很多人交谈，隐私令牌实际上是一件很重要的事情 hey if X Y Z thing went away would you would you care about it like yeah it 嘿，如果 X Y Z 的事情消失了，你会关心它吗？ would be kind of unfortunate if that went away or I lose a lot of money 如果这种情况消失或者我损失很多钱那就太不幸了 00:07 00:07 accepting the ICO and then you talk to people you say what would you miss it if 接受 ICO，然后你和人们交谈，你说如果 Manero went away and I can't man that would be really terrible because I 马内罗走了，我不能说那真的很糟糕，因为我 actually use manera to do something hmm so I think I think the payment side of 实际上使用 manera 来做一些事情，嗯，所以我想我认为支付方面 things was actually gonna merge and then yeah I agree I think decentralized 事情实际上会合并，然后是的，我同意我认为去中心化 exchanges and collectibles are too early 交流和收藏还为时过早 like real use cases that people actually 就像人们实际上的真实用例一样 yes and and what about the decentralized apps that people are talking about and 是的，人们正在谈论的去中心化应用程序又如何？ kind of dreaming about now what what's the timeline on something like that I 现在有点梦想着类似的事情的时间表是什么 think probably this is probably a place where we might differ I think it's 我认为这可能是我们可能存在分歧的地方 我认为 probably like seven to ten years out for most of these I think we're really 对于大多数这些，可能需要七到十年的时间，我认为我们真的 really early in most of these cases there might be one off use cases like 在大多数情况下，在早期，可能会有一次性用例，例如 orchid with VPN where there's that's like a real problem and being a 带有 VPN 的兰花，这就像一个真正的问题，并且是 distributed network and a decentralized network yeah can be can be censorship 分布式网络和去中心化网络是的，可以是可以是审查制度 resistant and so that's like a core feature of the network beyond that I'm I 抵抗力，所以这就像网络的一个核心特征，超越了“我是我” think it'll be it'll be a while I think there will be some early use cases but 我认为这需要一段时间 我认为会有一些早期用例但是 by and large it's gonna take several years yeah I generally agree I think my 总的来说，这需要几年的时间是的，我基本上同意我认为我的 time spans just a little bit shorten maybe like three to five but I think 时间跨度稍微缩短了一点，也许三到五个，但我认为 that there's there's a lot of scaling issues that need to be solved before 之前有很多扩展问题需要解决 00:08 00:08 anything can go mainstream um but I I'm generally a pretty optimistic that 任何事情都可以成为主流，但我总体上非常乐观 there's a lot of really smart people working on that problem right now 现在有很多非常聪明的人正在研究这个问题 mm-hmm and be more specific on the technical side what are the scaling 嗯嗯，在技术方面更具体一些，缩放比例是多少 issues yeah so with aetherium crypto kitties itself was so popular so many 问题是的，所以以太坊加密猫本身非常受欢迎 people are trying to use it Bitcoin itself so many people have been 人们正在尝试使用比特币本身，所以很多人已经 actually trying to use Bitcoin that the transaction fees have actually gotten 实际上尝试使用交易费实际获得的比特币 pretty high and at some points it was like average thirty dollars per 相当高，在某些时候平均每人三十美元 transaction for you which is like parallel to a wire at that point so you 对您来说，交易就像平行于此时的电线，因此您 you you have so many people that's I mean it's a good problem so many people 你，你有这么多人，我的意思是，有这么多人，这是一个好问题 want to use it but it's too expensive and it starts getting really slow and 想使用它，但它太贵了，而且速度开始变得非常慢， then in the theorems case I know there's a lot of scaling work being done so l4 然后在定理案例中我知道有很多扩展工作正在完成，所以l4 is an organization that was funded by the etherium community grant to 是一个由以太坊社区资助的组织 essentially work on some scaling solutions there's a lot of different 本质上致力于一些扩展解决方案，有很多不同的 ones that they're tackling they're supposed to be working on stage 他们正在解决的问题应该是在舞台上进行的 which essentially you can kind of if I were to compare this I it's kind of just 本质上你可以有点如果我要比较这个我这有点只是 like a bar tab in a way where you essentially have all these like offline 就像一个栏选项卡，你基本上可以像离线一样拥有所有这些 00:09 00:09 transactions where people are just like moving back and forth between each other 人们之间的交易就像在彼此之间来回移动一样 and you can update you can update state and essentially you can update logic and 你可以更新你可以更新状态，本质上你可以更新逻辑 then only when you want to finalize something you can move it back to the 然后只有当你想要完成某些事情时，你才可以将其移回 main chain so it's just a bunch of off chain transactions 主链，所以它只是一堆链下交易 there's also plasma which is Joseph poon and Vitalik wrote about which 还有 Joseph poon 和 Vitalik 写过的 Plasma essentially you have block chains within block chains and so you just like have 本质上你在区块链中拥有区块链，所以你就像有 all this work being done on these like blockchains within a main blockchain 所有这些工作都是在主区块链中的区块链上完成的 and if you ever want to because the idea 如果你想因为这个想法 is that you don't really care about what everyone else is doing you only really 就是你并不真正关心别人在做什么，你只关心自己 care about what your transactions are all about yeah so you're like isolated 关心你的交易是关于什么的，所以你就像孤立的 in your own little block chain and only when something goes wrong do you ever 在你自己的小区块链中，只有当出现问题时你才会 have to like leave that block chain and like go back to the main one and report 必须离开该区块链并返回主区块链并报告 something strong so there's all kinds of like things going on with this so just 一些强大的东西所以有各种各样类似的事情正在发生所以只是 to understand that like buy your own block chain are you meaning individual 了解就像购买自己的区块链一样，您的意思是个人吗 users or individual apps on a blockchain both I mean essentially you can just be 区块链上的用户或个人应用程序我的意思是本质上你可以 00:10 00:10 isolated in your own world in whatever application or even individual use cases 在任何应用程序甚至个人用例中都与您自己的世界隔离 so this is very theoretical right now but there's like work being done on it 所以现在这还很理论化，但已经有相关工作正在进行 there's also true bits working on doing off chain computations so essentially 还有真正的位致力于进行链下计算，所以本质上 you don't want really complex computation on if you're in blockchain 如果你在区块链中，你不需要真正复杂的计算 you essentially can maybe move that off and pay people for computational to be 你基本上可以把它移走并付钱给人们进行计算 done and essentially the problem is that you have to verify that the work was 完成了，本质上问题是你必须验证工作是否已经完成 done correctly so they have a really really cool concept where you 做得正确，所以他们有一个非常非常酷的概念，你可以 essentially have force you force errors in the network so you essentially every 基本上已经迫使你在网络中强制错误，所以你基本上每个 once in a while the network will do some wrong computation and something that is 网络偶尔会做一些错误的计算， incorrect and people who catch that error actually get compensated for that 不正确，发现该错误的人实际上会得到补偿 so you have this whole network where people are just constantly making sure 所以你有整个网络，人们不断地确保 that things are running correctly because if they catch something they get 事情运行正确，因为如果他们抓住了一些东西，他们就会得到 a payout for it so there's just a bunch of really cool work being done out so 付款，所以只有一堆非常酷的工作正在完成，所以 I'm generally pretty optimistic it the ability to actually go mainstream and do 我总体上对真正成为主流并做事的能力非常乐观 you think that many of these apps that we're gonna see are going to resemble 你认为我们将看到的许多应用程序都会类似于 00:11 00:11 things that are popular right now or is this sort of like very much like the 现在流行的东西或者是非常像的东西 beginning of the internet and we had no idea what was coming and it'll 互联网诞生之初，我们不知道会发生什么，但它会 look more like that than you know a dupe of what we have right now yeah I think 看起来更像是我们现在拥有的东西的一个骗局，是的，我想 it'll be that's a great question I think the early ideas will look like ports of 这是一个很好的问题，我认为早期的想法看起来像是 stuff that were used to there's like the early internet was kind of like the New 那里习惯的东西就像早期的互联网有点像新的 York Times took the newspaper and literally like nytimes.com headlines or images 《约克时报》采用了该报纸，并且字面意义上就像 nytimes.com 的标题或图片 yeah it was the Newman Charlie yeah it looks like the newspaper writes just 是的，这是纽曼查理 是的，报纸上写的只是 because it's like that's the easiest way to transport to a new platform and we 因为这是转移到新平台最简单的方式，而我们 just couldn't predict it social media that actually like Facebook and Twitter 只是无法预测社交媒体实际上会喜欢 Facebook 和 Twitter would be the actual media winners or YouTube would be the actual media when 将是实际的媒体赢家，或者 YouTube 将是实际的媒体，当 it wouldn't be you know like CNN and so I think and I think it would have been 它不会像 CNN 那样，所以我认为，我认为它会是 really challenging to predict something like Airbnb yeah if you could have 预测像 Airbnb 这样的东西真的很有挑战性，是的，如果你可以的话 called that then you know well you you have done quite well as an investor but 那么你很清楚你作为投资者做得很好，但是 also you know every be if you look at their early funding history it was just 如果你看看他们早期的融资历史，你也知道，这只是 really challenging for them because it's 对他们来说真的很有挑战性，因为 such an out-there idea but it was it was a native idea it was a thing that made 这是一个很奇怪的想法，但它是一个本土的想法，它使得 00:12 00:12 sense on the internet so I think the the first set of ideas will be essentially 互联网上的感觉，所以我认为第一组想法本质上是 ports and there'll be people trying to sort of cargo cult kind I mean app the 港口，会有人试图对货物进行某种崇拜，我的意思是应用程序 idea is over yeah and then a couple years into it people who are sort of 想法已经结束了，是的，然后几年后，人们就开始了 think about these things natively will start to play with ideas and say oh well 自然地思考这些事情将开始发挥创意并说“哦，好吧” now you can do this thing that just wasn't possible before and here's an 现在你可以做以前不可能的事情，这是一个 idea and what do you know if I push a button a car can come to me instead of 你知道吗，如果我按下按钮，一辆汽车就会来找我，而不是 me going to someplace right and so those ideas I think it just takes a while for 我要去某个正确的地方，所以我认为这些想法需要一段时间才能实现 people to get used to it and for developers to play with the the 让人们习惯它并让开发人员使用它 infrastructure and the concepts and just 基础设施和概念以及只是 sort of like poke around and play around and see what's possible do you think 有点像四处探索，看看你认为有什么可能 it'll leapfrog by location in any way so for example you know how LA was 它会以任何方式跨越位置，例如你知道洛杉矶是怎样的 perfectly situated to have cars but you know medieval European cities weren't 地理位置优越，适合汽车行驶，但你知道中世纪的欧洲城市却没有 yeah and so they kind of then get leapfrogged and have the train 是的，所以他们有点超越并拥有了火车 infrastructure do you think that will happen with you know a decentralized app 基础设施 你认为如果你知道一个去中心化应用程序，这会发生吗 so say for instance you know in Africa somewhere where like you know money is 比如说，你知道在非洲某个地方，你知道那里有钱 not the same thing as it is here in terms of like payment accessibility and 就付款可访问性而言，与这里不同的是 and most things will they take off in different places first or will that not 大多数东西会首先在不同的地方起飞，或者不会 00:13 00:13 be the case personally I never thought cryptocurrencies were gonna take off in 就我个人而言，我从未想过加密货币会在 the US or anything at first I think it's 美国或其他任何地方，首先我认为是 gonna be in countries where people don't have bank accounts primarily and they 在人们主要没有银行账户的国家，他们 now need a method of actually storing their own funds or countries where their 现在需要一种实际存储自己资金或所在国家的方法 currency is just getting inflated away and so the currency is not valuable so I 货币正在膨胀，所以货币不值钱，所以我 find that like in certain countries the use cases of cryptocurrency actually 发现就像在某些国家一样，加密货币的用例实际上 matter more than in countries where there's a really strong financial 比金融实力雄厚的国家更重要 infrastructure so yeah it definitely varies in my kit and so there's also 基础设施所以是的，它在我的套件中肯定有所不同，所以还有 something like in China where you have all this censorship of using different 就像在中国，你有所有使用不同的审查制度 applications I could really see decentralized applications taking off in 我真的可以看到去中心化应用程序在 China yeah yeah I just always wondered like has is the valley a good barometer 中国 是的，我只是一直想知道，山谷是一个很好的晴雨表吗？ of the popularity of cryptocurrency and decentralized apps or is it not that's 加密货币和去中心化应用程序的流行是否是这样？ what I've been wondering I'd take a question yeah in some sense geography is 我一直想知道我会问一个问题 是的，从某种意义上说，地理是 just one is like one specific way to say that there's an underserved market yeah 只是一种就像一种特定的方式来表达市场服务不足是的 00:14 00:14 and I think you will probably see things like the inspiration for new ideas does 我想你可能会看到像新想法的灵感这样的事情 tend to take hold in these underserved markets and so geography is certainly 往往会在这些服务不足的市场占据一席之地，因此地理位置肯定是 one dimension or you could have argued that you know college students were or 一个维度，或者你可能会说你知道大学生是或 an underserved market and it came to social networks and it's just like they 一个服务不足的市场，它来到了社交网络，就像它们一样 were all in one place there's like an opportunity for a new type of media to 都集中在一个地方，这就像一种新型媒体的机会 emerge and so you know I think there will be pockets even even in developed 出现，所以你知道我认为即使在发达国家也会有口袋 countries there are pockets that are underserved and so the question is 国家中有些地区服务不足，所以问题是 really where other underserved markets where the new infrastructure gives you 确实，新基础设施可以为您提供其他服务不足的市场 some sort of fundamental advantage or some sort of new utility and then 某种基本优势或某种新效用，然后 there's a kind of a related question which is even if that's worth the 有一种相关的问题即使值得 inspiration for the idea comes from how do the companies that build those 这个想法的灵感来自于建造这些设施的公司是如何做到的 products actually scale which i think is actually a different dimension 产品实际上是规模化的，我认为这实际上是一个不同的维度 altogether and so it's it's you know if you think about where the bottlenecks 总的来说，如果你想想瓶颈在哪里，你就知道了 for actually building companies are I think a lot of that is tribal knowledge 对于实际建立的公司，我认为其中很多都是部落知识 that's in people's heads it's like what does it mean to have like a fast-growing 在人们的头脑中，这就像拥有一个快速增长的公司意味着什么 startup so coinbase for example is a YC company right it's actually not a 例如，Coinbase 是一家初创公司，它是一家 YC 公司，它实际上不是一家 coincidence to me it's just like what it takes to actually build a fast-growing 对我来说很巧合，这就像真正建立一个快速增长的公司所需要的那样 00:15 00:15 startup it turns out there's a lot of traditional like best practices about 事实证明，初创公司有很多传统的最佳实践 how you hire people on how you structure 你如何雇佣员工取决于你如何构建 teams and how you raise capital and like a bunch of that stuff is like that 团队以及如何筹集资金以及诸如此类的事情 tribal knowledge is in people's heads in Silicon Valley and so I think you could 部落知识存在于硅谷人们的头脑中，所以我认为你可以 have the inspiration for ideas come from underserved markets but I wouldn't be 想法的灵感来自服务不足的市场，但我不会 surprised if the really big winners in crypto actually every centralized around 令人惊讶的是，如果加密货币领域的真正大赢家实际上都集中在 Silicon Valley hmm Oh same way yeah I generally feel the same way I mean 硅谷 嗯哦，同样的方式是的，我通常也有同样的感觉 there's a lot of developers that are I hear about are working on aetherium 我听说有很多开发人员正在开发以太坊 applications in their spare time and so you're seeing a flock of 在业余时间申请，所以你会看到一群 per talent from Silicon Valley into working in this space and I think that 每个来自硅谷的人才都在这个领域工作，我认为 that's where you're going to see a lot of innovation although it is it is 在那里你会看到很多创新，尽管事实确实如此 pretty nice to see that there are like different hubs around the world of 很高兴看到世界各地有不同的中心 blockchain development so there's like Berlin and I know places in Argentina 区块链开发所以像柏林和我知道阿根廷的地方 and Switzerland is another area so like it's it's pretty cool to see like more 瑞士是另一个地区，所以看到更多这样的地方真是太酷了 hubs pop up in the space yeah and how how much do you think 空间中突然出现了集线器，是的，你觉得有多少 governance and regulation is going to affect those hubs like does it 治理和监管将会影响这些中心 ultimately mean just like there's a certain density of people that can build 最终意味着就像有一定密度的人可以建造 00:16 00:16 the stuff therefore I'm moving there or are these tax incentives different 因此我要搬到那里，或者这些税收优惠是否有所不同 regulations actually going to move the market yeah I think it's really going to 法规实际上会推动市场，是的，我认为这真的会 move the market so right now I think the 推动市场，所以现在我认为 u.s. is being smart and not trying to be overly restrictive because they'll know 我们。是聪明的，而不是试图过度限制，因为他们会知道 that it will push out a lot of the development especially let's say you 它将推动很多发展，特别是假设你 were to just really be harsh on people that were developing on these projects 对开发这些项目的人真的很严厉 and I think that that would easily just cause people just move elsewhere you're 我认为这很容易导致人们搬到你所在的其他地方 already seeing the tax incentives play out here so people are registering in 已经看到税收优惠在这里发挥作用，所以人们正在注册 Cayman Islands or Puerto Rico starting a little like hub of people buying houses 开曼群岛或波多黎各开始有点像人们买房的中心 imported yeah yeah yes so you're already 导入 yes yes yes 所以你已经 seen I actually know if you feel they're trying to move out of California 我真的知道你是否觉得他们正试图搬出加利福尼亚 especially because California's that's really high taxes yeah yeah well you see 特别是因为加州的税收非常高，是的，你看 Nevada plates here all the time yeah and even even like when you have scenarios 内华达州车牌一直在这里，是的，甚至就像当你有场景时 where people are like mining in China and then also in China starts cracking 人们就像在中国采矿一样，然后在中国也开始破裂 down on mining these miners have to move elsewhere and you're seeing like people 不喜欢采矿，这些矿工必须搬到其他地方，而你看到的就像人们一样 00:17 00:17 move over to Washington because electricity is cheap so there's like 搬到华盛顿，因为电很便宜，所以就像 this like movement and just based off cheap electricity as well so yeah it's 这就像运动一样，而且只是基于廉价电力，所以是的，它是 pretty fascinating I think I mean the whole regulatory arbitrage angle to this 非常有趣，我想我指的是整个监管套利角度 stuff is pretty fascinating yes how our governments the game theory around how 东西非常有趣，是的，我们的政府如何围绕博弈论 governments want to to regulate this stuff is pretty pretty interesting I 政府想要监管这些东西非常有趣我 actually think that US government has been really really smart about this and 实际上认为美国政府在这方面非常非常聪明 pretty measured and sophisticated because I think they understand there's 相当谨慎和复杂，因为我认为他们明白 a lot of potential for innovation here and a lot of value be created and they 这里有很大的创新潜力，可以创造很多价值，他们 don't want to crush that and I've been actually pretty impressed with how 不想破坏它，而且我对如何做到这一点印象非常深刻 measured they've been I mean you look at something like the the BTC the Bitcoin 我的意思是你看看 BTC 之类的东西 ETF paperwork that went in and all these ETF 文件以及所有这些 people filing for it I thought it was it was so clever the way 人们申请它，我认为它的方式非常聪明 that they essentially pushed back on that they didn't actually reject the the 他们本质上反驳说他们实际上并没有拒绝 ETF proposals it essentially convinced the people who ETF 提案基本上说服了那些 had put in the ETF proposals to withdraw the proposal yeah which I thought was 已提出 ETF 提案以撤回提案 是的，我认为是 super clever so they basically back-channel now I think I don't have 超级聪明，所以他们现在基本上是秘密渠道，我想我没有 00:18 00:18 any inside information just to be clear but my read on it was what they did was 任何内部信息只是为了澄清，但我读到的是他们所做的 they went to the to the teams and said hey look there are a lot of reasons we 他们去了球队并说嘿，看，我们有很多原因 can't approve this right now maybe it was like hey we don't want to inflate 现在不能批准这个也许就像嘿我们不想膨胀 the bubble anymore or you know whatever else 泡沫不再存在，或者你知道还有什么 why don't you withdraw them and let's keep talking and then that way it wasn't 你为什么不撤回它们，让我们继续谈谈，然后事情就不是这样了 like the government rejected the ETF proposals it was the ETF proposals are 就像政府拒绝了 ETF 提案一样，ETF 提案是 being withdrawn just absolutely the right way to do it right if you're like 如果你喜欢的话，退出绝对是正确的做法 hey look we're gonna do this eventually we just can't do this right now but we 嘿，看，我们最终会做到这一点，我们只是现在不能这样做，但我们 don't crush the market we already don't want to pump up the market really smart 不要压垮市场，我们已经不想真正聪明地刺激市场 way to do it and so they've actually think been pretty sophisticated like the 这样做的方式，所以他们实际上认为非常复杂，就像 regulator's inside the SEC and the CFTC and so on they've been actually pretty 监管机构位于 SEC 和 CFTC 等内部，他们实际上非常出色 sophisticated in the way they're handling this and what about on the 他们处理这个问题的方式很复杂，那么 Investor side how do you guys feel about you know accredited investors getting 投资者方面，你们对认可的投资者获得认可有何感想 involved in icos versus not accredited yeah I mean that one's hard because I 参与 ICO 与未认证是的，我的意思是这很难，因为我 really believe in decentralized systems and everyone should have access to this 真正相信去中心化系统，每个人都应该有权使用它 but at the same time if something straight-up looks like a security token 但同时如果某些东西直接看起来像安全令牌 and you're issuing it in the US I think that it rightfully falls under the SEC 而且你在美国发行它，我认为它理所当然地属于 SEC 的管辖范围 regulation so I I do believe in compliance and that's actually something 监管，所以我确实相信合规性，这实际上是一件事 00:19 00:19 I really like about this new protocol harbor protocol we're essentially trying 我真的很喜欢我们正在尝试的这个新协议港口协议 to make sure that the trading of tokens is compliant so you can have some 确保代币交易合规，以便您可以拥有一些 whitelist of just accredited investors that plug into the smart contract and 插入智能合约的刚刚获得认可的投资者的白名单，以及 essentially say that you can only ever issue tokens to these investors and 本质上是说你只能向这些投资者发行代币，并且 there's maybe some holding requirement you have to hold it for 90 days or 可能有一些持有要求，您必须持有 90 天，或者 something so the smart contract itself will have the logic that you can't 所以智能合约本身就会有你不能的逻辑 actually trade these tokens so I do think that it's important to be 实际上交易这些代币，所以我认为重要的是 complying with this as long as it's very 只要非常遵守这一点 clear it's the security token although I really think that there are plenty of 显然这是安全令牌，尽管我真的认为有很多 cases where like a governance token doesn't fall under that jurisdiction so 像治理代币这样的情况不属于该管辖范围，所以 it's really important to kind of like make the distinction that not all tokens 区分并非所有代币都非常重要 are the same yeah agree with all that and the risk really is that I mean the 是一样的，是的，同意所有这些，风险确实是我的意思是 there's no there's a whole like philosophical angle to this right which 不存在一个类似哲学角度的权利 is to what degree should the government be involved in and being somewhat 是政府应该在多大程度上参与并有所作为 paternal about about protecting investors from this up 父亲关于保护投资者免受这种影响 00:20 00:20 from themselves in some sense right and and these distinctions are arbitrary 从某种意义上说，它们本身是正确的，并且这些区别是任意的 it's like if you have a certain amount of money you get to sort of doing every 就像如果你有一定数量的钱，你就可以做每件事 one and if you don't then you don't right so and you know that's starting to 一个，如果你不这样做，那么你就不对，所以你知道这开始了 change with crowd funding regulations that have changed recently and and so 随着最近改变的众筹法规的变化等等 there is some movement there so setting aside the kind of philosophical parts of 那里有一些运动，所以抛开哲学部分 it I think generally speaking trying to prevent scammers in the ecosystem and 我认为一般来说，试图防止生态系统中的诈骗者 trying to prevent people from kind of getting built and losing their money I 试图阻止人们建立并失去他们的钱我 think is important and good and to the extent that the ecosystem can do that 认为重要且良好，并且生态系统可以做到这一点 itself things like Harbor which i think is pretty awesome as your project I 本身就像 Harbour 这样的东西，我认为它非常棒，因为你的项目我 think the to the extent that we can kind 认为我们可以善待 of like make that easy for people to not lose their money or people inside the 就像让人们很容易不失去他们的钱或内部的人 ecosystem calling out okay this is what I've been wondering right yet like 生态系统呼喊“好吧”，这就是我一直想知道的 because you know the ico market has been rife with these I mean like not 因为你知道 ICO 市场已经充斥着这些我的意思是不是 necessarily scams but sometimes straight-up yeah right and it's not 必然是骗局，但有时是直接的，是的，但事实并非如此 actually good for anyone yeah I mean maybe it's good for the one scammer who 实际上对任何人都有好处是的，我的意思是也许这对那个骗子有好处 gets a bunch of money yeah but in the long run it's not good for anyone yeah 得到一大笔钱 是的，但从长远来看，这对任何人都没有好处 是的 00:21 00:21 yeah so like is this the only way what other methods are being put in place to 是的，这就是其他方法正在实施的唯一方法 avoid these scams yeah I'm really helping people who are 避免这些骗局是的，我真的在帮助那些 in the ecosystem are very aggressive about calling these things out yeah 在生态系统中非常积极地把这些事情说出来是的 and not supporting them and I think ultimately if if there are ways for 并且不支持他们，我认为最终是否有办法 people to call out these projects and then those projects don't receive any 人们呼吁这些项目，然后这些项目没有收到任何 funding that's that's actually you know like the economic incentives will kind 资金，这实际上是你知道的，就像经济激励措施一样 of play out in the right way yeah and so 以正确的方式发挥作用 是的，所以 I think you know people will get smarter about it people will get more 我想你知道人们会变得更聪明人们会得到更多 sophisticated about diligence and investors can kind of help I think the 我认为，精明的勤奋和投资者可以有所帮助 people who actually are sophisticated and understand the technology and have 真正成熟、了解技术并拥有 done diligence and understand how product development works and understand 尽职尽责并了解产品开发的运作方式并了解 all these nuances I think actually getting out there and saying like hey 所有这些细微差别我认为实际上是走出去说“嘿” this is the real good stuff right true bit super interesting project you know 这是真正的好东西，真的，有点超级有趣的项目，你知道 like and there's real tech there and the team is really smart and like so on 那里有真正的技术，团队也很聪明，等等 right and just like talking about it and saying by the way this stuff over here 是的，就像谈论它并顺便说一下这里的东西 be careful right like yeah and I don't call anybody out but like you know it's 小心点，就像是的，我不会叫任何人出来，但就像你知道的那样 there there's stuff out there that if you just talk to people who are deep in 那里有一些东西，如果你只是和那些内心深处的人交谈 it you can sort of like poke and prod and realize that it's it's a little bit 你可以像戳戳一样，然后意识到它是一点点 00:22 00:22 more vaporware I think people just need to be more proactive about that yeah 更多的蒸气软件我认为人们只需要更加积极主动地对待这一点是的 there there was an interesting case where there was a there's a project 有一个有趣的案例，有一个项目 called crypto all-stars resin she had collectibles of different crypto 称为加密全明星树脂她有不同加密的收藏品 celebrities so there like one furnivall and charlie and so if 名人所以有像弗尼瓦尔和查理这样如果 you like verified on Twitter that you were actually them the the card owner 您喜欢在 Twitter 上验证您实际上是持卡人 you essentially got four percent of the proceeds of the card and then the 你基本上得到了该卡收益的百分之四，然后 creator of the project got four percent but anyways this this was like really 该项目的创建者得到了百分之四，但无论如何，这就像真的 really popular and people are trading this and it pretty much like looked like 真的很受欢迎，人们正在交易它，它看起来就像 a pyramid scheme in a way and someone actually bought the website and bought 在某种程度上是金字塔计划，有人实际上购买了该网站并购买了 it from the project owners and claiming they wanted to improve it and they 来自项目所有者并声称他们想要改进它并且他们 actually shut it down and so they like someone bought it pays what I think it 实际上关闭了它，所以他们喜欢有人买它支付我认为的价格 was like ten thousand dollars or something like that and then just shut 大概是一万美元或者类似的东西然后就关门了 down the website and said like hey this is like straight up a scam and like 浏览网站并说，嘿，这就像一个骗局，就像 people are pumping the prices on Twitter and people are gonna lose a bunch of 人们在推特上抬高价格，人们会损失很多 money so I'm not okay with this I'm shutting it down so I thought that was 钱，所以我对此不满意，我要关闭它，所以我认为这是 00:23 00:23 like those I know crazy amazing yeah yeah so things like that are happening 就像我认识的那些人一样疯狂，太棒了，是啊，所以这样的事情正在发生 as well right like I it's probably like would behoove me to do some research on 就像我一样，我可能有必要做一些研究 the beginning of the stock market because I imagine in the beginning 股市的开始因为我一开始就想象 things we're getting pumped in the same way exactly I mean I think that's that 我们以同样的方式得到的东西 我的意思是我认为就是这样 is the root of a lot of this regulation is yeah people a lot of people lost a 是很多这个规定的根源是是的，很多人失去了 lot of money you know 60 70 80 years ago 很多钱你知道 60 70 80 年前 and so a collectively we all decided hey it's probably better if we don't let 所以我们集体决定嘿，如果我们不让 snake oil salesman come in and just like take every money it's like better for 蛇油推销员进来了，就像拿走每一笔钱一样，这对他们来说更好 everybody though I think it's fair to say you know maybe it I think it's 每个人虽然我认为公平地说你知道也许我认为这是 always good to revisit things that have been around for you know 50 years and 重温已经存在了 50 年的事物总是好的 say which of these things actually apply 说出以下哪些内容实际适用 today and how should we think about them and actually we evolved them yeah but 今天，我们应该如何思考它们，实际上我们进化了它们，是的，但是 you know you even before I guess at that 在我猜测之前你就已经认识你了 point hopefully I think there are people in a community that are good about 希望我认为社区中有人擅长 calling these things out and stamping out the the fraud before it really 大声疾呼，在欺诈行为真正发生之前将其消灭 happens you too big and too many people lose too much money and so what for the 碰巧你太大了，太多人损失了太多钱，那又怎样呢？ people in the community like the folks interested in starting companies where 社区中的人们，例如对创办公司感兴趣的人们 00:24 00:24 do you think the opportunities are now and then maybe that maybe the real 你认为机会是现在还是那时也许这也许是真正的机会 question is where the opportunities four years from now that they should start 问题是四年后他们应该从哪里开始机会 working on right now you have a company that's a great question what do you 现在你有一家公司，这是一个很好的问题，你会做什么 think there's so many applications that I feel like rely on some sort of 认为有太多的应用程序我觉得依赖于某种 identity and reputation system because in the end like even if it's a 身份和声誉系统，因为最终就像即使它是一个 decentralized system like if you're doing a decentralized marketplace you 去中心化系统，就像你正在做一个去中心化市场一样 still have to trust that the person you're buying and good friends 还是要相信你买的人和好朋友 actually going to deliver to you so I think it's really important to have like 实际上会交付给你，所以我认为拥有这样的东西非常重要 some some reputation and identity system that carries with you as you as you use 一些在您使用时随身携带的声誉和身份系统 all these different applications and we're still the very early days of that 所有这些不同的应用程序，我们仍处于早期阶段 so there's like things like you port and civic but they're really rudimentary 所以有像port和civic这样的东西，但它们真的很初级 compared to the identity systems that exist in like regular financial systems 与常规金融系统中存在的身份系统相比 um so I'd really like to see people work 嗯，所以我真的很想看到人们工作 on that problem and another area is that a lot of a lot of projects talk about 关于这个问题，另一个领域是很多很多项目都在谈论 doing decentralized governance and they say that they're going to use the tokens 进行去中心化治理，他们说他们将使用代币 00:25 00:25 actually upgrade the protocol over time but there's so much research that needs 实际上随着时间的推移升级协议，但需要进行大量研究 to be done there so I think there's massive opportunity to really figure out 在那里完成，所以我认为有很大的机会真正弄清楚 what's the best way to handle governance in decentralized manner I think that 以去中心化的方式处理治理的最佳方式是什么我认为 that's going to be a massive potential yeah I just taking some notes I I just 这将是一个巨大的潜力，是的，我只是做一些笔记，我只是 came up with five that I think are probably if you're a founder out there 我认为如果你是创始人的话可能会想到五个 like a wish everything you might one crypto puppy so I think the first Lynda 就像一个愿望，你可能拥有一只加密小狗，所以我认为第一个 Lynda talked about before is basically scaling solutions there's a lot of actually 之前谈到的基本上是扩展解决方案，实际上有很多 infra work to be done just around making this stuff actually more scalable yeah 基础工作要做的就是让这些东西实际上更具可扩展性是的 and I think everybody pretty much is an agreement that they're just not enough 我认为每个人都一致认为他们还不够 people actually working at that layer of the problem and we could we could use a 人们实际上在解决问题的这一层，我们可以使用 lot more great developers poking around there I think even more broadly speaking 我认为更广泛地说，还有更多优秀的开发人员在那里探索 that I think there are components of infrastructure that are missing and so I 我认为基础设施的某些组件缺失了，所以我 think identity as a component of infrastructure is interesting I think 我认为身份作为基础设施的一个组成部分很有趣 things like Oracle's are interesting I think just this general idea of like how 像甲骨文这样的东西很有趣，我认为就像这样的一般想法 00:26 00:26 do we know what's true and what's not true and and there are like potentially 我们知道什么是真的、什么是假的吗？还有潜在的可能性 shared datasets that people would want to cross projects or cross chain 人们想要跨项目或跨链的共享数据集 projects I would bucket all that kind of stuff inside infrastructure I think 我认为我会把所有这些东西都放在基础设施中 there's financial infrastructure and financial tooling like a lot of the 像很多金融基础设施和金融工具一样 early use cases are basically payment oriented or money oriented and so 早期的用例基本上是面向支付或面向金钱的等等 there's much stuff to do there I think there's a lot of dev tooling to be built 那里有很多事情要做，我认为有很多开发工具需要构建 so it's just like the actual production of us more contract how do you test this 所以这就像我们更多合同的实际生产你如何测试这个 stuff how do you deploy it there's a lot of work to do there and then like a lot 你如何部署它有很多工作要做，然后喜欢很多 of things I think the early use cases will probably be somewhat trivial and 我认为早期的用例可能会有些微不足道 fun and so I think gaming and collectibles and things like that will 有趣，所以我认为游戏和收藏品之类的东西会 be pretty interesting and maybe it's truly native stuff like crypto 非常有趣，也许它是真正原生的东西，比如加密货币 kitties maybe it's markets to buy and sell those kinds of assets maybe it's 小猫 也许这是买卖这类资产的市场也许是 games from you know traditional gaming companies sitting on top of crypto 您知道坐在加密货币之上的传统游戏公司的游戏 somehow to do digital assets inside the game or cross game digital assets so I 以某种方式做游戏内的数字资产或跨游戏的数字资产，所以我 think a lot of the like really sort of fun trivial stuff that can take 认为很多类似的事情真的很有趣，琐碎的事情可以采取 00:27 00:27 advantage of the new technology will be a way to bootstrap in 新技术的优势将成为引导的一种方式 I mean arguably I snuck in somebody earlier today about you know in some 我的意思是，可以说我今天早些时候偷偷溜进了某人，你知道在某些事情上 sense I SEOs are kind of the gaming use case right it's kind of like a game way 我感觉 SEO 是一种游戏用例，它有点像一种游戏方式 it's a gambling use case and like that's actually kind of what's happening as 这是一个赌博用例，实际上就是这样发生的事情 people are just gambling it's real money 人们只是在赌博，这是真钱 yeah and so it kind of makes sense right 是的，所以这是有道理的 that that would take off is like it kind of matches the pattern of what you see 那会起飞就像它与你所看到的模式相匹配 with early adoption technologies yet again like gambling is an early adopter 再次早期采用技术，就像赌博是早期采用者一样 right oh for sure yeah I mean is there a porn crypto thing yes actually really 对哦，当然是的，我的意思是有色情加密的东西是的，实际上真的 popular and uses really cool technology so it's really great yeah what is it 很受欢迎并且使用了非常酷的技术所以它真的很棒是的它是什么 doing so I think it's like webcams where people can just paste Bank coin or 这样做我认为这就像网络摄像头，人们可以粘贴银行硬币或 something to them but they use like state channel technology it's like 对他们来说有些东西，但他们使用状态通道技术就像 cutting-edge technology in aetherium which is pretty incredible yeah one of 以太坊的尖端技术，这是相当令人难以置信的，是的之一 the one of the more awkward things I guess with all the early adopter use 我猜这是所有早期采用者使用中最尴尬的事情之一 cases too is you want to like understand 案例也是你想要了解的 00:28 00:28 them but you don't want to go like super deep and like you know like in the 但你不想像你知道的那样超级深入 ecosystem you don't necessarily want to be known as the change thanks ready yeah 生态系统，你不一定希望被称为变化，谢谢，准备好了，是的 yeah that's true yeah I haven't really yeah but it was like oh yeah somebody's 是的，这是真的，是的，我还没有真正是的，但就像是，哦，是的，有人的 doing I don't actually know anybody's really 我实际上并不知道任何人真的在做 dug into it right yeah especially if you don't massively cash in is like this 深入研究是的，特别是如果你没有大量兑现的话，就像这样 Bank chain guy yeah I'm just kind of around yeah fair enough so what about 银行连锁店的家伙 是的，我只是在附近 是的，足够公平，那么呢 the extra I mean I cos have been gigantic right people erased hundreds of 额外的我的意思是我因为已经有巨大的权利人们删除了数百个 millions of dollars yeah six six I think was six billion last year's the number 数百万美元 是的，六六，我认为去年的数字是六十亿 three billion alone yeah well it was the largest one so far yes yeah it's 仅三十亿是的，这是迄今为止最大的一个，是的，是的 probably yes yeah I think they're up to a billion I think probably they're like 可能是的，是的，我想他们有十亿，我想他们可能就像 two billion now jeez yeah yeah so this like fundamentally shifts the paradigm 现在有二十亿了天哪，是的，所以这从根本上改变了范式 for fund raising so that's we I mean we've kind of like 为了筹集资金，这就是我们，我的意思是我们有点像 gone from zero miles an hour to 120 miles an hour yeah in this conversation 从每小时 0 英里到每小时 120 英里 是的，在这次谈话中 but like for people who don't fully understand when someone raises a billion 但就像那些不完全理解某人筹集十亿美元的人一样 00:29 00:29 dollars straight up hey what are these what are the expectations for this 美元直接上涨嘿这些是什么，对此的期望是什么 company they what are people buying it has a great question it depends on on 他们的公司有一个很大的问题，那就是人们购买它取决于什么 you know there's there's actually a great amount of variation there too I 你知道实际上也有很多变化 mean it's you know yes or Bank or or file coin slash protocol labs or tezo's 意思是你知道是的或者银行或者文件硬币斜线协议实验室或者tezo的 I mean I think across the board people who tried a lotta different models 我的意思是我认为尝试了很多不同模型的人们 everything from you're buying a utility token which is the ultimately going to 从你购买一个实用代币开始，这一切最终都会发生 be used for some sort of functional utility inside the network as part of a 作为网络内部的某种功能实用程序的一部分 product yeah - hey literally you're giving money to a foundation that's like 产品是的 - 嘿，从字面上看，你正在向一个基金会捐款，就像 literally it's a donation to a foundation and you have no expectation 从字面上看，这是对基金会的捐赠，你没有任何期望 of anything in return it's like if you're if you read the docs that's 任何回报就像如果你读了文档 actually what you did you donate it to a 实际上你做了什么，你把它捐给了 foundation so it's actually pretty broad spectrum and so there's no Universal 基础所以它实际上是相当广泛的，所以没有通用的 answer to that and I actually think it's it it will be interesting to see what 回答这个问题，我实际上认为就是这样，看看会很有趣 happens on the regulatory side on that I think in the next you know 12 months 我想在接下来的 12 个月内就会发生监管方面的事情 says some of these things come to fruition where people don't actually 说其中一些事情在人们实际上并没有实现的情况下实现了 00:30 00:30 deliver on projects you know I think it's a big open question of what 交付你知道的项目我认为这是一个悬而未决的大问题 actually happens in which of these things are okay and which of them or not 实际上发生在这些事情中哪些是可以的，哪些是不可以的 yeah what's crazy is like there's I mean you can't even possibly spend that much 是的，最疯狂的是我的意思是你根本不可能花那么多钱 money on developing applications like I disagree 像我不同意的那样开发应用程序的钱 someone's gonna spend the money oh my god but like people now have so much 有人会花钱哦，天哪，但就像人们现在拥有这么多 excess capital that they're giving it to 他们给予的过剩资本 crypt of funds and being like you manage this capital and now they're like an LP 资金的秘密，就像你管理这笔资金，现在他们就像一个有限合伙人 so it's like so crazy some of these projects have become funds of funds yeah 所以这太疯狂了，其中一些项目已经成为基金的基金了是的 yeah and in some cases you could argue you know what like I think if the 是的，在某些情况下，你可能会说你知道我的想法，如果 ethereum Community Fund is doing an interesting job here we're saying hey 以太坊社区基金正在做一项有趣的工作，我们想说嘿 look if your room is actually a really go system we want to encourage 看看你的房间是否真的是一个我们想要鼓励的真正的系统 development in the ecosystem let's invest in teams and companies doing 生态系统的发展让我们投资于团队和公司 really interesting work that may may be under invested in like a lot of 真正有趣的工作可能可能投资不足 infrastructure stuff is just under invested in so it's like let's give 基础设施的投资还不够，所以就像让我们给 developers an incentive to pay attention there but yeah in certain other cases 开发人员有动力去关注那里，但在某些其他情况下是的 it's just like hey we raised 200 million 就像我们筹集了 2 亿美元一样 dollars and by the way that 5x so now we have a billion dollars and we're not 美元，顺便说一句，是 5 倍，所以现在我们有 10 亿美元，但我们没有 00:31 00:31 actually equipped to handle a billion dollars we really only need it 25 实际上有能力处理 10 亿美元，我们实际上只需要它 25 million dollars to build the thing so what we're gonna do with 975 million 100 亿美元来建造这个东西，那么我们将用 9.75 亿美元做什么 dollars right I mean you also have to be a money manager and that's right 美元对我的意思是你还必须成为一名资金经理，这是对的 founders who's like how much is liquid how much is 200 how much do I pay people 创始人说流动性是多少 200 是多少 我要付给人们多少钱 which then I think that Linda's point is okay well we probably don't want to be 然后我认为琳达的观点是好的，我们可能不想成为 money manager so let's go find a money manager and are handing their money over 资金经理，所以我们去找资金经理，把他们的钱交给我们 to people to be money managers yeah crazy so on on the founders side what 让人们成为资金管理者 是的，疯狂，所以在创始人方面什么 are you guys saying to people that are honestly considering an SEO and they've 你们是不是对那些诚实考虑 SEO 并且他们已经 passed the threshold where you're like okay this actually makes sense you're 超过了你认为好的门槛，这实际上是有道理的 not just like generating some pyramid scheme you're not just trying to grab 不只是像生成一些金字塔计划，你不只是想抓住 money and and there's a real reason to do it what do you tell them so so a very 钱，并且有一个真正的理由这样做，你告诉他们什么所以所以非常 very few times is it reasonable in my opinion to do a token sale there's a lot 我认为进行代币销售合理的次数很少，有很多 of really great projects that can do decentralize applications or create 真正伟大的项目可以分散应用程序或创建 their own blockchain River but they don't actually need to do a token sale 他们自己的区块链 River，但他们实际上不需要进行代币销售 they can just go traditional equity route and we seen that with the with 他们可以走传统的股权路线，我们看到了 00:32 00:32 some projects like Dharma and dy/dx so I actually recommend a lot of projects to 一些项目，如 Dharma 和 dy/dx，所以我实际上推荐了很多项目 go that route because you don't necessarily want to attack on a token 走这条路，因为你不一定想攻击令牌 that you don't know is actually going to make sense it creates additional 你不知道的事情实际上是有意义的，它会创造额外的 friction to the network as well and there's there's still regulatory 网络也存在摩擦，而且仍然存在监管 uncertainty as how this is supposed to be handled so if someone still really 不确定如何处理这件事，所以如果有人仍然真的 wants to do a token sale I I recommend that they work with lawyers that really 想要进行代币销售 我建议他们与真正的律师合作 understand the space don't try to be cheap with the lawyers I've heard people 了解这个空间，不要试图向律师讨价还价，我听过人们这样说 be like oh I found some like discount lawyer he's willing to do this 就像哦，我找到了一些像折扣律师一样的人，他愿意这样做 can sell for really chief and I'm like no like you want to make sure people 可以卖到真正的酋长，我不喜欢你想确保人们 have expertise around this and can guide you through things but I generally also 拥有这方面的专业知识，可以指导您完成事情，但我通常也会 say like and no-one's listened to me on this but I think they should raise the 这么说，但没有人听我的意见，但我认为他们应该提出 series like there's no need that you have to raise all that money up front 系列就像你不需要预先筹集所有资金 let's say you really wanted to raise all that money up front you should probably 假设您真的想预先筹集所有资金，您可能应该这样做 like lock it up for some time and as you hit certain milestones the funds then 就像锁定一段时间，当你达到某些里程碑时，资金就会消失 release because it can also sitting on like 200 million dollars can also kind 释放因为它还可以坐拥像2亿美元也可以善良 of hurt incentives of the team being like oh we just have a bunch of money 团队的激励受到伤害，就像哦，我们只有一大笔钱 00:33 00:33 like we can just spend like crazy so I think that the incentives really change 就像我们可以疯狂花钱所以我认为激励措施真的改变了 and the last thing which people have listened to me on is the vesting 人们听我说的最后一件事是归属 schedule of tokens so it's really important to just kind of look like a 令牌的时间表，因此看起来像一个非常重要 traditional company in that sense is you want to make sure employees aren't just 从这个意义上说，传统公司是你要确保员工不仅仅是 gonna leave and cash out their tokens right when the tokens still happens and 当代币仍然发生时，我会离开并兑现他们的代币 on the flip side you for investors you you want to make sure they're aligned 另一方面，对于投资者来说，您希望确保他们保持一致 with you as well yeah early on a lot of projects didn't have a vesting schedule 和你一样，是的，早期很多项目都没有归属时间表 or lock up for these investors and the investor just came in and flipped their 或者锁定这些投资者，而投资者刚刚进来并翻转了他们的 coins they got their discount like twenty to thirty percent and then during 硬币他们得到了百分之二十到百分之三十的折扣，然后在 the actual token sale they just sold everything and they're no longer 实际的代币销售他们只是卖掉了所有东西，他们不再 investors so you it really changes incentives so it's so important to think 投资者，所以你真的改变了激励措施，所以思考非常重要 through how your token model actually works and what are the like what's the 通过您的代币模型的实际工作原理以及类似的情况 governance of it essentially do you recommend for your vesting for employees 您是否建议对员工进行归属管理？ same deal yeah that's pretty much what I've been doing so for like one year 同样的交易，是的，这几乎是我一年来一直在做的事情 lock of one your lockup when you're locked word for your investing schedule 当您的投资计划被锁定时，锁定您的锁定状态 that's what I've been recommending but I mean yeah it's it's pretty 这就是我一直推荐的，但我的意思是，它很漂亮 00:34 00:34 tried-and-true I mean I think a lot of these things like vesting or you know 久经考验的我的意思是我认为很多这样的事情比如归属或者你知道 being being thoughtful about when you raise money and how you raise money 深思熟虑何时筹集资金以及如何筹集资金 they're tried-and-true for a reason right they're actually like underlying 它们经过验证是有原因的，它们实际上就像底层一样 it all is there's a group of humans that get in a room or getting a telegram 这一切都是有一群人进入一个房间或收到一封电报 group and write some code and and those human dynamics haven't really changed 分组并编写一些代码，而这些人类动态并没有真正改变 and so things like vesting are importantly I think we figured that out 所以像归属这样的事情很重要，我认为我们已经弄清楚了 over the last 20 years that some of these things are really good now I think 在过去的20年里，我认为其中一些东西现在真的很好 there are places where you might want to like reconsider them in your like in in 有些地方你可能想重新考虑一下 this new world like you know how much where's the value accrue is it equity or 这个新世界就像你知道的，价值在哪里累积，是股权还是 tokens so are your employees vesting equity or they vesting tokens so they're 代币，您的员工也归属股权，或者他们归属代币，所以他们 like some interesting questions there but I think some of these foundational 喜欢那里的一些有趣的问题，但我认为其中一些是基础性的 concepts like vesting they exist for a reason 像归属这样的概念它们的存在是有原因的 and I think their best practice for a reason and I think a lot of teens should 我认为他们的最佳做法是有原因的，我认为很多青少年应该 be adopting these things if they haven't already 如果还没有采用这些东西的话 mm-hmm yeah I mean it's trick it like again when you get a bunch of humans in 嗯嗯，是的，我的意思是，当你让一群人进来时，这又是一场骗局 a room they create games and if you raise a billion I'm gonna raise a 他们创造游戏的房间，如果你筹集十亿美元，我会筹集 billion one yeah that's the game yeah yeah unfortunately yeah so so to like 十亿一是的，这就是游戏是的，不幸的是，所以非常喜欢 kind of boil it down you're saying to founders like listen you don't 有点像你对创始人说的，听着，你不这么说 00:35 00:35 necessarily have to do token sale yeah because it's not required so if you're a 必须进行代币销售 是的，因为这不是必需的，所以如果您是 founder and you're interested in crypto you can get in but you don't have to do 创始人并且您对加密货币感兴趣，您可以加入，但您不必这样做 this right and so when it comes back to that like are you saying to them you 这是正确的，所以当回到这一点时，你是不是对他们说你 know apply to an accelerator or go and raise money traditionally like what are 知道申请加速器或按照传统方式筹集资金 you recommending them to do in that path yeah I think what it comes down to is 你建议他们走这条路，是的，我认为归根结底是 just like outside of crypto and startup world at this point there are a lot of 就像在加密货币和创业世界之外一样，目前有很多 places to get money and and I know it's different if you're in different parts 赚钱的地方，我知道如果你在不同的地方，情况会有所不同 of the world in some places have more investor depth and investor liquidity 世界上一些地方有更多的投资者深度和投资者流动性 than other places but you know there there are a lot of ways to raise money 比其他地方要多，但你知道有很多筹集资金的方法 and so you really want to be thoughtful about who you're raising money from and 所以你真的要考虑一下你从谁那里筹集资金 what value they bring to your company and yeah you could do the ico and get a 他们给你的公司带来了什么价值，是的，你可以进行 ICO 并获得 bunch of people to send you some eath but what happens if things don't go well 一群人给你送一些东西，但如果事情进展不顺利怎么办 all right or the you know those are the kinds of projects I think that you know 好吧，或者你知道这些是我认为你知道的项目类型 your your retail investor raises up their hand and says that person stole my 你的你的散户投资者举手说那个人偷了我的 00:36 00:36 money meanwhile they're they're always great 同时他们有钱，他们总是很棒 investors like Linda who have actually been at companies and like started 像琳达这样的投资者实际上已经在公司工作过并且喜欢开始 companies and helped scale companies and that's actually who you want involved 公司并帮助扩大公司规模，而这实际上是您想要参与的人 right that's actually who can help you over the next three four or five years 对的，这实际上是在未来三四年或五年内可以帮助你的人 as you build your company so I think what we're gonna see is a lot of people 当你建立你的公司时，我想我们会看到很多人 returning to that idea of oh well I could get money from five different 回到这个想法，哦，好吧，我可以从五个不同的地方得到钱 places who can actually add value to my company for the next three to five years 在未来三到五年内能够真正为我的公司增加价值的地方 and help me build this company and so I think we'll see that sort of 帮助我建立这家公司，所以我想我们会看到这样的情况 re-aggravate ords people who actually add value in the early stages you know 重新加剧那些在早期阶段真正增加价值的人，你知道 that could be an accelerator that could be an early stage investor that could be 这可能是一个加速器，可能是一个早期投资者，可能是 somebody who was early in crypto and made a bunch of money but actually is 早期进入加密货币并赚了很多钱的人，但实际上是 very sophisticated about how they think about Krypton right a lot of those 他们对氪星的看法非常老练，对很多人来说 people out there too so it's not to say you know people who haven't previously 那里的人也在那里，所以这并不是说您认识以前不认识的人 been in the ecosystem or not value add I 是否已进入生态系统或没有增值 I think there are actually a lot of people who are crypto native in some sense who 我认为实际上有很多人在某种意义上是加密原生的 really understand this stuff right and I've been in it for years we're very 我真的很了解这个东西，我已经从事这个行业很多年了，我们非常了解 smart and very thoughtful and you want them involved and so it's real 聪明而且非常体贴，你希望他们参与进来，所以这是真实的 about how do you find people who can add value and get them involved in your 关于如何找到能够增加价值的人并让他们参与到您的工作中 00:37 00:37 company and being smart and thoughtful about that yeah yeah that's that's so 公司并且对此感到聪明和深思熟虑是的，就是这样 true just because when when these projects are doing token sales they're 这是真的，因为当这些项目进行代币销售时，他们 distributing their tokens to thousands of people and especially if you did some 将他们的代币分发给成千上万的人，特别是如果你做了一些 heavy marketing around that you end up getting this like pump-and-dump kind of 围绕着大量的营销，你最终会得到类似拉高抛售的结果 crowd and all they're doing is saying like when moon when the bellowing acts 人群，他们所做的只是说，就像月亮在咆哮时那样 like they just want things listed in the price to pump yeah and then if you look 就像他们只是想要价格中列出的东西来泵是的然后如果你看 at those slack groups it's just like mayhem they're just they're not adding 在那些闲散的团体中，这就像混乱一样，他们只是没有添加 any value they're creating tons of distraction for the founders and so I 他们创造的任何价值都会让创始人分心，所以我 think it's so important to have value add investors and not just try to make 认为拥有增值投资者非常重要，而不仅仅是试图赚钱 money really really quick or something I mean I think you see the micro example 钱真的很快或者我的意思是我想你看到了这个微观例子 in Silicon Valley already right like if you're a big quotes hot company you can 在硅谷已经很好了，如果你是一家大报价热门公司，你可以 raise from anyone yeah it's just about finding the smartest money yeah until 从任何人那里筹集是的，这只是为了找到最聪明的钱是的，直到 you see that in a larger scale here it's 你可以看到，在更大的范围内，它是 like zillions of dollars floating around 就像无数的美元漂浮在周围 yeah how do I actually think in the last 是的，最后我实际上是怎么想的 three months in particular don't know if you're saying this but it seems like we 特别是三个月，不知道你是否这么说，但看起来我们 have moved back into that world where the really really good teams in crypto 已经回到了那个世界，那里有加密货币领域非常优秀的团队 and a lot of the teams that have a lot of early momentum are going out and 许多早期势头强劲的球队正在走出去 00:38 00:38 seeking out the high-value investors again and saying like hey I don't want 再次寻找高价值投资者并说“嘿我不想” to do a public sale I actually want to find people who can add value to the 进行公开销售时，我实际上想找到能够为产品增值的人 company and be thoughtful about it so um I mean I think we might look at this 公司并深思熟虑，所以嗯，我的意思是我想我们可以考虑一下这个 historically you know in five years we might look back and say oh that was a 从历史上看，五年后我们回顾过去时可能会说，哦，那是一个 funny six month window in time yeah I kind of like basically getting back to 有趣的六个月时间窗口是的，我有点喜欢基本上回到 the basic principles I saw some stat on that I was saying like nowadays 60% of 我看到了一些关于我所说的基本原则，比如现在 60% the funds raised in a general token sale is actually raised in the presale round 一般代币销售中筹集的资金实际上是在预售轮中筹集的 so it's it's really shift in momentum so far just in a year since beginning of 所以自年初以来仅用了一年时间，势头就发生了真正的转变 the year yeah yeah cool yeah things move so fast in space all right so let's go 今年是的，是的，很酷，是的，太空中的事物移动得如此之快，好吧，所以我们走吧 into some of the questions from Twitter King Croesus asks so what are your 克洛伊索斯国王在推特上提出了一些问题，那么您有什么想法呢？ thoughts on optional versus mandatory privacy in transactions yes have a lot 关于交易中可选隐私与强制隐私的想法是的，有很多 of thoughts on that so I essentially think that it needs to be mandatory 对此的想法所以我本质上认为它需要是强制性的 privacy if you're gonna actually have a privacy coin if it's ever if it's ever 隐私 如果你真的有一枚隐私币 如果有的话 如果有 optional you get looked at if you're starting to use a privacy feature like 可选，如果您开始使用隐私功能，例如 00:39 00:39 why are you using this privacy feature do you have something to hide so first 您为什么使用此隐私功能？您有什么要隐藏的吗？ of all it like paint a target on your back second of all so for context I did 最重要的是，它就像在你的背上画一个目标，所以为了上下文，我做了 I did blockchain tracing when I was at bass and so bitcoin is very easy to 我在低音的时候做过区块链追踪，所以比特币很容易 trace and a lot of people give information away about other people so 跟踪并且很多人泄露了其他人的信息，所以 even if you're being really smart and someone trans acts with you they give 即使你真的很聪明，并且有人与你进行跨性别行为，他们也会给予 away away information about you and so that can happen in a scenario where you 带走有关您的信息，因此这种情况可能会发生在您 only have a small subset that's actually being private and the rest of the the 只有一小部分实际上是私有的，其余的 users on the network are being public they can give that information away so I 网络上的用户是公开的，他们可以泄露这些信息，所以我 think it's really important to just have 认为拥有真的很重要 mandatory privacy and that's something I really love about Manero that's they 强制隐私，这就是我真正喜欢 Manero 的一点，那就是它们 have all transactions are private by default and I think that's that's 默认情况下所有交易都是私密的，我认为就是这样 absolutely crucial yeah I feel sorry I think I think mandatory is already go I 绝对重要的是，我感到抱歉，我想我认为强制已经走了我 think it creates some interesting challenges though I think that's a 认为它创造了一些有趣的挑战，尽管我认为这是一个 harder pill for regulators to swallow generally speaking I heard this great 一般来说，监管机构更难吞下这颗药丸，我听说这很棒 story where in the early days of the internet you know like SSL HTTPS is now 在互联网的早期，您所知道的 SSL HTTPS 是现在的故事 like a standard thing right and it's on by default in a lot of cases but 就像一个标准的东西，在很多情况下它是默认打开的，但是 00:40 00:40 actually the Netscape team had to fight to make that a thing that was possible 事实上，网景团队必须努力使这成为可能 inside the browser because the government was worried about like why do 在浏览器内部，因为政府担心为什么要这样做 you need to encrypt your transactions like you know you are you doing 您需要加密您的交易，就像您知道自己在做什么一样 something illegal like why shouldn't we have this be public and it turned out 一些非法的事情，比如我们为什么不应该公开它，结果却是这样 that one of the one of the selling points was commerce it's like you don't 卖点之一是商业，但好像你不知道 want to send your credit card number over the wire unencrypted and and so the 想要通过线路不加密地发送您的信用卡号码等等 fact that there were like real legitimate use cases allowed things like 事实上，真正的合法用例允许诸如 SSL to emerge is like oh yeah we should actually allow that and so that that I SSL 的出现就像哦，是的，我们实际上应该允许它，这样我 think is actually the the challenge for the space is philosophically you agree 我认为实际上这个空间的挑战是哲学上的，你同意 with Linda with Linda which I do I think then the onus is on us to demonstrate 和琳达 和琳达 我认为我们有责任去证明 all the use cases where default privacy is really important and I think things 默认隐私非常重要的所有用例，我认为 like hey look if people do start to get paid in crypto for their job well you 就像嘿，看看人们是否开始通过加密货币来获得他们的工作报酬，那么你 kind of don't want everybody to know how much what do you make and who's paying 有点不想让每个人都知道你赚了多少钱以及谁在付钱 you that's like that's reasonable I think it's even more interesting if you 你这样说很有道理 我觉得如果你这样的话那就更有趣了 start talking about well let's say you have a particular sexual orientation and 开始谈论好吧 假设你有特定的性取向并且 00:41 00:41 you live in a community that doesn't really support that and you're donating 你生活在一个并不真正支持这一点的社区，而你却在捐赠 to a charity that does like do you really want people to be able to sniff 到一个慈善机构，你真的希望人们能够嗅闻吗？ that out you take an even more extreme when you say well if you live in a 当你说好如果你住在一个 a country where the government is not you know you might trust the US 一个没有政府的国家，你知道你可能会信任美国 government there might be other government that you don't trust well do 政府 可能还有其他你不信任的政府 you want even if that's not your government do you want that government 你想要即使那不是你的政府你想要那个政府吗 to be able to sniff out your transactions on a public law chain right 能够嗅出您在公法链上的交易权利 right and so I think being really concrete about it's not it's not just a 是的，所以我认为要真正具体地了解它，这不仅仅是一个 philosophical thing though I do agree with the philosophy hundred percent is 哲学的事情虽然我百分百同意哲学是 there are like really practical consequences to this stuff what will 这件事会产生真正实际的后果 make it possible I think for regulators to understand why it's so important that 我认为监管机构能够理解为什么它如此重要 it be on by default yeah absolutely and and also there is this concept of 它默认是打开的，是的，而且还有这个概念 selective transparency and both Manero and Z cache so you could centrally have 选择性透明度以及 Manero 和 Z 缓存，以便您可以集中拥有 this view key where you can share with someone to now view your transactions 您可以与某人共享此查看密钥以立即查看您的交易 really um so this you could share with auditors if you want to be compliant or 真的嗯，如果你想合规或，你可以与审计师分享这一点 if a charity just wants to display those transactions they can share their view 如果慈善机构只想展示这些交易，他们可以分享他们的观点 key to everyone in the world so that the the idea is that it really much just 对世界上每个人来说都很重要，所以我们的想法是，它真的只是 00:42 00:42 mirrors the traditional financial system we don't broadcast everything to the 反映了传统的金融体系，我们不会将所有内容广播给 world but we download our bank account statement and give it to someone when 世界，但我们下载我们的银行账户对账单并将其交给某人 they need to see it um so I don't think like it is far off from what we're just 他们需要看到它，所以我认为它与我们的目标相差不远 used to right agreed yeah yeah so just default private and 习惯了正确同意是的所以只是默认私人和 then if you need to be public on it yes yeah cool so transitioning from that 那么如果你需要公开它，是的，很酷，所以从那个过渡 into another governmental related question cláudio asks how do you see the 在另一个与政府相关的问题上，cláudio 问你如何看待 US government or do you see the US government launching their own crypto 美国政府或者您是否看到美国政府推出自己的加密货币 currency backed by gold yeah I have very strong thoughts about this so so the 由黄金支持的货币 是的，我对此有非常强烈的想法，所以 specific incarnation I think backed by gold we can sort of set that aside for a 我认为，在黄金的支持下，我们可以将其放在一边 second in general I think I hear a lot of people talking about how governments 第二，总的来说，我想我听到很多人谈论政府如何 might regulate crypto or ban crypto and and there is some risk of that I think 可能会监管加密货币或禁止加密货币，我认为存在一些风险 the bigger and scarier potential risk is 更大更可怕的潜在风险是 that governments fully embrace crypto in the wrong way hmm and so kind of back 政府以错误的方式完全拥抱加密货币，嗯等等 00:43 00:43 this idea of privacy right like do you really want a government that you may 这种隐私权的想法就像你真的想要一个你可以的政府吗 not trust to have full visibility into everything that you are spending money 不相信能够完全了解您所花钱的一切 on every day and every transaction and every person that you're transacting 每天、每笔交易以及与您交易的每个人 with right that has like very you know there's like fundamental human right to 与权利一样，你知道，有类似的基本人权 privacy sorts of aspects to that and then like very practical you know if if 隐私等方面，然后非常实用，你知道如果 your government can do it odds are other governments can do it sorts of 你们的政府可以做到，其他政府也有可能做到 downstream consequences and so you know increasingly I think governments are 下游后果，所以你越来越知道我认为政府 getting stuff in a way that they think about 以他们认为的方式获取东西 technology and adopting technology and using technology so I think the bigger 技术、采用技术和使用技术，所以我认为更大 risk is actually what Claudio is calling out is governments being really smart 风险实际上是克劳迪奥所呼吁的，政府真的很聪明吗 about adopting this in a way that makes in my opinion the wrong trade-offs 我认为采用这种方式是错误的权衡 between sort of security versus privacy mmm and and I think they're just not 在安全与隐私之间，嗯，我认为它们不是 enough there's not enough people I think we're so many people are worried about 够了，人不够，我想我们有很多人担心 governments banning the stuff that we're not looking at the other side of it 政府禁止我们没有关注的东西 nearly as deeply of what happens if a government fully embraces it and but 几乎与如果政府完全接受它会发生什么一样深刻，但是 does it in the wrong way or what if a government that you may not trust even 这样做的方式是错误的，或者如果一个你可能不信任的政府怎么办？ if you trust your government if another government that you don't trust embraces 如果你信任你的政府 如果另一个你不信任的政府拥抱 00:44 00:44 it in the wrong way is there a positive outcome in which a government embraces 如果政府采取错误的方式是否会产生积极的结果 it creates for example us Coyne whatever it might be 它创造了例如我们科恩，无论它是什么 Trump coin yeah where it's actually not not a negative thing or that you we move 特朗普硬币是的，这实际上不是一个负面的事情，或者你我们移动 from the dollar to us corner it is possible yeah a lot I think absolutely I 从美元到美国角落，这是可能的，是的，很多，我认为绝对是我 mean that's what's that's one of the great things I think about crypto is it 这就是我认为加密货币最伟大的事情之一 is global and I think there are there are all sorts of opportunities for 是全球性的，我认为有各种各样的机会 governments that are especially smaller and more nimble and willing to adopt 规模特别小、更灵活并愿意采用的政府 this stuff I think Estonia has done a great job of pioneering some of this stuff 我认为爱沙尼亚在开拓其中一些方面做得很好 I think Singapore is poking around with this so there are definitely places 我认为新加坡正在研究这个问题，所以肯定有地方 between voting or making it easy to file your taxes to you know making the 在投票或让您轻松报税之间，您知道 banking system more efficient there are lots of places I think where large 银行系统效率更高，我认为有很多地方都很大 existing institutions could adopt this and that'd be great 现有的机构可以采用这个，那就太好了 or you know even making stable coins like you know maybe some government 或者你知道甚至可以像某些政府那样制造稳定币 should just say hey look we we have five 应该说嘿，看我们有五个 00:45 00:45 hundred billion dollars and you trust us and we're going to stable coins and now 千亿美元，你信任我们，我们将建立稳定的代币，现在 actually crypto can be a real thing so I think there are lots of positive 实际上加密货币可以是一个真实的东西所以我认为有很多积极的一面 ways governments could play in the space as well and hopefully some well yeah 政府也可以在这个领域发挥作用，希望有些好是的 yeah Dubai has been pretty good about that they said that like all visa 是的，迪拜一直很好，他们说就像所有签证一样 applications and some other documents would be on the blockchain by 2020 so 到 2020 年，应用程序和其他一些文档将出现在区块链上，因此 they it ended up like it's gonna save them over a billion dollars a year and 他们最终觉得这每年将为他们节省超过十亿美元 just be more efficient so they're they've been pioneers in the space and I 只要提高效率，他们就是这个领域的先驱，而我 know consensus the company works really closely with them and then now that yeah 了解共识，公司与他们密切合作，然后现在是的 I quickly agree with everything you said 我很快同意你所说的一切 what's crazy is Venezuela already issued their own yeah yeah which they claim 疯狂的是委内瑞拉已经发布了他们自己的“yeah Yeah”，他们声称这是 there are five billion dollars with grades in the presale but they haven't 预售有五十亿美元，但他们还没有 proved it but what's crazy is that there's all these sanctions against 证明了这一点，但疯狂的是所有这些制裁都是针对 Venezuela and now there's this foreign capital coming in apparently to to fund 委内瑞拉，现在有外国资本进来显然是为了资助 this and so you you run into all these issues we're like now you're you're 所以你遇到了所有这些问题，我们就像现在你是你 supporting a sanction country financially and so that they'll be 在经济上支持制裁国家，以便他们 really interesting to watch how that plays out right well I mean you see 观看它如何顺利进行真的很有趣我的意思是你明白 00:46 00:46 every day how little the average you know normal person cares about these 每天，你知道普通人关心这些的平均水平是多少 sanctions between borders so by something in Venezuela or Mexico or it 委内瑞拉或墨西哥等国之间的制裁 doesn't matter yeah all right another question Naveen Mishra asked what would 没关系，是的，好吧，另一个问题纳文·米什拉问了什么 be the best onboarding ramps for adoption and what roles will Oracle's 是采用的最佳入职坡道以及 Oracle 将扮演什么角色 have in decision-making in the future so best onboarding ramps for adoption I 在未来的决策中，所以最好的采用坡道我 mean honestly I think it's something like coinbase they do a really good job 老实说，我认为这就像 coinbase 一样，他们做得非常好 of just linking up your bank account and just purchasing crypto currencies so I 只是连接您的银行帐户并购买加密货币，所以我 think that just having a nice user experience there is really important I 我认为拥有良好的用户体验非常重要 think the more interesting thing for me is what role will Oracle's have in the 我认为对我来说更有趣的是甲骨文将在 decision making process so I'm fascinated with this idea of 决策过程所以我对这个想法很着迷 decentralized Oracle's so you could essentially have a system 去中心化的 Oracle，这样你基本上就可以拥有一个系统 like augur which is a prediction market platform where anyone can create a 像 augur 一样，这是一个预测市场平台，任何人都可以在其中创建 prediction market on it and the the past issue with prediction markets is they 预测市场及其过去的问题是它们 often get shut down by regulators just because it's kind of closer to gambling 经常被监管机构关闭只是因为它有点接近赌博 00:47 00:47 but in in prediction markets on top auger no one can shut this down so you 但在顶部螺旋的预测市场中，没有人可以关闭它，所以你 can really have these markets operate and so people can start creating markets 真的可以让这些市场运作起来，这样人们就可以开始创造市场 where essentially you measure the citizens happiness you measure GDP you 本质上，你衡量公民的幸福感，你衡量GDP，你 measure all these different statistics of a different of a country and you can 测量不同国家的所有这些不同统计数据，您可以 have people betting on the outcome of whether or not a different policy is 让人们押注是否会采取不同的政策 going to increase or decrease these statistics and from there policymakers 政策制定者将增加或减少这些统计数据 can now start making their decisions based off the outcome of this and that's 现在可以开始根据这个和那个的结果做出决定 called free turkey and I just think that is so cool because it people are 叫做免费火鸡，我只是觉得这很酷，因为人们 actually putting their money where their mouth is at this point so like they 实际上，他们现在已经把钱放在嘴上了，就像他们一样 might say one thing oh yeah I really support this policy but if they're 可能会说一件事哦，是的，我真的支持这项政策，但如果他们 actually betting on it then that's that's more I think a stronger signal so 实际上我认为这是一个更强的信号所以 I I think that that's going to be something that is totally new that that 我认为这将是全新的事情 these systems are able to produce so yeah the only thing I had on the 这些系统能够生产所以是的，我唯一拥有的东西 onboarding piece of it is I I suspect that the way most people will get on 入职部分是“我”，我怀疑大多数人都会采用这种方式 boarded will either be very directly like coinbase it's like they know what Boarded 要么非常直接，就像 coinbase 一样，就像他们知道什么一样 00:48 00:48 they're getting into they're buying into 他们正在进入 他们正在购买 a crypto or it's gonna be totally opaque to them they're actually not gonna 加密货币，否则对他们来说将是完全不透明的，他们实际上不会 realize at all that what they're doing is interacting with blockchain and 完全意识到他们正在做的是与区块链交互并且 crypto they're just doing a thing that you couldn't do before right and it's 加密货币他们只是在做一件你以前做不到的事情，这是对的 just gonna be so it's gonna be so sideways and that people just won't 只是会如此，它会如此侧向，人们就是不会 realize it that's actually what's happening and I suspect those native use 意识到这实际上是正在发生的事情，我怀疑那些本地使用 cases will be that way and so I think you know it's an interesting question of 情况会是这样，所以我想你知道这是一个有趣的问题 what percentage of people on board it into the space do it very directly 有多少人在进入该空间时非常直接地进行操作 through something like one base or they just happen to do a thing and that 通过某个基地之类的东西或者他们只是碰巧做了一件事 happens to sit on top of crypto kind of it kinda reminds me of you know like 碰巧坐在加密货币之上，这让我想起了你知道的 several years ago we used to talk about mobile companies so right now we talk 几年前我们常常谈论移动公司，所以现在我们谈论 about clear definite ways and in some point in like the next five years it's 关于明确的方式，在未来五年的某个时刻 not going to be that your crypto companies that you offer some value to 不会是你提供一些价值的加密货币公司 the people who use your product and it just so happens that you sit on top of 使用你的产品的人，而你恰好坐在 blockchain you're using economics or whatever and so I think that will 区块链，你正在使用经济学或其他什么，所以我认为这会 actually be how a lot of this stuff goes 实际上很多东西都是这样的 mainstream is in a way that people don't even associate directly with crypto 主流是人们甚至不直接与加密联系在一起的方式 necessarily yeah I think I like I would bet a hundred percent on that because if 必然是的，我想我喜欢我会百分之一百地打赌，因为如果 00:49 00:49 you ask the average person like so what language is Facebook and what what's a 你问普通人 Facebook 是什么语言以及什么是 language why do I care about this and you see it when people pitching their 语言为什么我关心这个，当人们推销他们的产品时你就会看到这一点 companies so they're like we have the fastest implementation of Python you've 公司，所以他们就像我们拥有您所见过的最快的 Python 实现 ever seen no one cares yeah good point awesome well thanks for coming in guys 见过没有人在乎 是的，好点，太棒了，谢谢你们的到来 this has been really great yeah thanks you 这真的很棒，谢谢你