00:00 00:00 so I guess the easiest way to put it is manufacturing using 3d printers will it 所以我想最简单的方法就是使用 3D 打印机进行制造，可以吗？ create a net positive of jobs and will it be moved back to the US great 创造净正就业机会并将其转移回美国吗？ question it will in the US I think it is 问题是在美国我认为是这样 it's a net positive for places that have seen manufacturing jobs leave their 对于那些制造业岗位流失的地方来说，这是一个净利好消息 country right I would say China is probably gonna be in trouble I read a 国家权利 我想说中国可能会遇到麻烦 我读过一篇文章 blog post recently about how Foxconn is looking to automate 30 percent of their 最近的博客文章介绍了富士康如何寻求实现 30% 的自动化 workforce in the next three years I think they have a million employees 未来三年的劳动力 我认为他们有 100 万员工 right so that's 300,000 people that might lose their jobs due to automation 是的，有 300,000 人可能会因自动化而失业 the hope obviously is that things are growing right it's not a zero-sum game 显然，我们希望事情能够顺利发展，这不是一场零和游戏 and so why are they losing jobs they're gonna be replaced by robotics they send 那么为什么他们会失去工作，他们会被他们派来的机器人取代 a low-cost option essentially and now robots are the low-cost option you can 本质上是一种低成本选择，现在机器人是您可以选择的低成本选择 deploy them anywhere so they're they're getting beaten at their own game 将他们部署在任何地方，这样他们就可以在自己的游戏中被击败 00:01 00:01 essentially and help us understand why in particular this is happening today 本质上并帮助我们理解为什么今天会发生这种情况 how are the robots of today any better in terms of their technology or 当今的机器人在技术或技术方面有何进步？ capabilities than the robots we've seen for a long time yeah I think there's a 比我们长期以来看到的机器人的能力是的，我认为有一个 few trends that are converging robots are becoming a lot cheaper is so just 融合机器人变得越来越便宜的趋势很少如此 focusing on the hardware side first we actually use a collaborative robot you 首先关注硬件方面我们实际上使用的是协作机器人 are 10 it's called and this is a $35,000 robot so depending on your perspective 是 10 它是一个价值 35,000 美元的机器人，所以取决于你的观点 that's either really expensive or really cheap it's cheap if you're used to 要么真的很贵，要么真的很便宜，如果你习惯的话，那就便宜了 spending money on hundred and fifty thousand dollar robots the other 花钱买十五万美元的机器人 advantage of the collaborative bots is that you can just plop them into a work 协作机器人的优点是您可以将它们放入工作中 environment and you don't have to spend a ton of money on safety equipment 环境，您无需在安全设备上花费大量资金 robots are really dangerous because if you're like working around them it will 机器人真的很危险，因为如果你喜欢在它们周围工作，它就会 able to just kill you honestly if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time so 如果你在错误的时间出现在错误的地点，他就能诚实地杀死你 these are designed to accommodate that by you know they have force sensing and 这些设计是为了适应您知道它们具有力感应和 00:02 00:02 stuff like that so they don't hurt people this started as a research trend in 诸如此类的东西，这样它们就不会伤害人们，这最初是作为一种研究趋势 Boston with this company called rethink robotics and they released their first 波士顿这家名为 rethink robots 的公司发布了他们的第一个机器人 arm in like 2011 so not only did the price come too 就像2011年那样，不仅价格也来了 but they also kind of got easier to integrate into the workplace you can 但他们也更容易融入工作场所 actually train them now just by like taking an arm and dragging it to a place 实际上现在就训练它们，就像拿起一只手臂并将其拖到一个地方一样 and saying like move here and like move here well go into that a little bit 说喜欢搬到这里，喜欢搬到这里，我们稍微讨论一下 deeper because we talked about it when you were giving me the tour like I'm 更深入，因为当你像我一样带我参观时我们讨论过它 very curious about how you actually program an arm there are so many 非常好奇你实际上是如何对手臂进行编程的，有这么多 different ways the software side of it I think is the other interesting part of 我认为软件方面的不同方式是另一个有趣的部分 the industry which is pretty pretty young there's at all you can probably 这个行业还很年轻，你可能可以做到 talk to this even more but there's kind of like software of old with robotics 更多地谈论这个，但有一种类似于机器人技术的旧软件 which is very rigid and structured and focused around safety and then there's 这是非常严格和结构化的，并且注重安全 like software of new which is all five years old or less and most of that has 就像新软件一样，这些软件都是五年或更短的，其中大部分已经使用了 00:03 00:03 been developed around this one system called Ross robot operating system and 围绕这个称为罗斯机器人操作系统的系统开发 Ross is really exciting for the industry because it's very accessible you can 罗斯对这个行业来说真的很令人兴奋，因为你可以很容易地接触到它 program it it's open-source but it obviously has a lot of a lot of things 对其进行编程，它是开源的，但它显然有很多很多东西 to be improved before it's like quite ready for highly structured environments 在为高度结构化的环境做好准备之前需要改进 where reliability is key I don't know you could probably talk a little bit 可靠性是关键 我不知道你能不能谈谈 more about what we've been planning on doing here yeah I mean the the 更多关于我们在这里计划做什么的事情是的，我的意思是 cooperative arms are really nice because even before you get to the level of we 合作手臂真的很好，因为即使在你达到我们的水平之前 need to integrate Ross to add vision or something else like that the you are 10 需要整合罗斯来增加视野或其他类似的东西，你是10 is actually at the point where you just pop open a socket and send it some ascii 实际上就是你只需打开一个套接字并向其发送一些ascii commands and you have it moving around immediately so the interface there is 命令，你让它立即移动，所以那里的界面 really easy and actually we've been able to treat most of our robotics projects 非常简单，实际上我们已经能够处理我们的大部分机器人项目 to this point just as software projects we're definitely interested in bringing 到目前为止，就像我们绝对有兴趣引入的软件项目一样 people in with robotics automation experience who can sort of handle or 具有机器人自动化经验的人可以处理或 00:04 00:04 think about the corner cases more and things like recovering from failure but 更多地考虑极端情况以及从失败中恢复之类的事情，但是 as far as getting a prototype together it's basically just a software project 就制作原型而言，它基本上只是一个软件项目 okay and so to make this more clear like how are you guys actually integrating 好的，为了让这一点更清楚，比如你们实际上是如何整合的 robots because you know on the surface you're doing 3d printing and those are 机器人，因为表面上你知道你正在做 3D 打印，而这些是 confined boxes so why do you need arms 3d printers are robots I'm just gonna 密闭的盒子所以你为什么需要手臂 3D 打印机是机器人我只是要 say definition ok we're definitely adding adding more to 说定义好吧，我们肯定会添加更多内容 the mix so I think the cool thing it's it's actually a pretty 混合所以我认为很酷的事情它实际上是一个漂亮的 straightforward application of the arm and it's something that people have been 直接使用手臂，人们已经习惯了 using robotics for for awhile which is just your classic machine tending so 使用机器人一段时间，这只是你的经典机器，所以 basically you know you have some high value piece of equipment that's churning 基本上你知道你有一些高价值的设备正在运转 out these jobs for you you want to be able to run it 24/7 so you just have an 为您完成这些工作，您希望能够 24/7 运行它，所以您只需一个 arm sit there and your machine is so high value that every second you can 手臂坐在那里，你的机器价值如此之高，以至于你的每一秒都可以 keep it producing is worth money to your 保持生产对你来说是值得的 company we actually have a slightly more exaggerated case of that where we have 公司实际上有一个稍微夸张一点的例子 00:05 00:05 you know 160 3d printers so it's not one-armed tending one machine like I 你知道 160 台 3D 打印机，所以它不像我一样用一只手看管一台机器 think you tend to see in the traditional deployment of this technology we have 您认为您倾向于在该技术的传统部署中看到我们有 one arm tending fifty or a hundred machines so it's very valuable to us 一只手臂照顾五十或一百台机器，所以这对我们来说非常有价值 essentially to be able to to do something like this with the arm okay 基本上能够用手臂做这样的事情 and so why have you guys opted for the machines the 3d printers that you've 那么为什么你们选择了 3D 打印机呢？ gone with we we use big about replicator twos we use them because we know they 随着我们的使用，我们使用大量的复制器二元组，我们使用它们，因为我们知道它们 work and we we actually used to work at MakerBot the manufacturer of the printer 工作，我们实际上曾经在打印机制造商 MakerBot 工作 and so when we were there we obviously got a lot of experience with these 所以当我们在那里时，我们显然在这些方面获得了很多经验 they're kind of older technology at this point so we're definitely looking to 目前它们是一种较旧的技术，所以我们肯定会寻求 integrate the next thing pretty soon mm-hmm and because they're like so 很快就会整合下一个东西，因为它们就像这样 people understand the landscape there's a whole range or 3d printers right like 人们了解情况，有全系列或 3D 打印机，就像 in the past I mean when did it start like 20 years ago people started doing 过去，我的意思是从什么时候开始，就像 20 年前人们开始做的那样 00:06 00:06 3d printing 83 I think was like the first like patent around 3d printing so 3D 打印 83 我认为这就像第一个围绕 3D 打印的专利，所以 in the past 30 years expensive printers like $100,000 过去30年昂贵的打印机大约10万美元 printers the cheapest printer was maybe like $20,000 printers have been the name 打印机 最便宜的打印机可能是 20,000 美元 打印机已经被称为 of the game and these are all used for prototypes starting in around 2007 those 游戏的所有内容都用于 2007 年左右开始的原型 original patents expired and people started developing desktop printers 原始专利到期，人们开始开发桌面打印机 which is what really spurred the 3d printing explosion of like 2012 and fall 这才是真正刺激 3D 打印在 2012 年和秋季爆发的原因 from maybe you know there was kind of this curve of like oh my god we're 也许你知道有这样一条曲线，就像天哪，我们是 really excited about 3d printing everything is going to be 3d printed 对 3D 打印感到非常兴奋，一切都将被 3D 打印 then the reality set in there's a lot of work that needs to be done before we're 那么现实情况是，在我们之前还有很多工作需要完成 there so cheap printers which is the desktop printers that we use are just 有这么便宜的打印机，我们使用的桌面打印机只是 low-end commoditize hardware the technology was invented you know a few 低端商品化硬件这项技术的发明你知道几个 decades ago and people just figure out how to make them really cheaply in scale 几十年前，人们刚刚弄清楚如何以真正便宜的规模制造它们 and that's what we're built on and you guys have opted into those cheaper 这就是我们的基础，你们选择了那些更便宜的 00:07 00:07 printers just so you can have more jobs running simultaneously it's it's the 打印机只是为了让您可以同时运行更多作业 Google Amazon method to reliability essentially and it sort of flips the 谷歌亚马逊的可靠性本质上是一种颠覆 current or old style 3d Service Bureau on its head very valuable machines 当前或旧式 3D Service Bureau 是非常有价值的机器 creating very valuable parts in small quantities for us it's all about scale 为我们小批量生产非常有价值的零件，这一切都与规模有关 and and cheap parts so going back to robotics for a second if I'm listening 和廉价的零件，所以如果我在听的话，请回到机器人技术 to this podcast today and I'm kind of interested in getting into robotics but 今天的播客，我对进入机器人技术很感兴趣，但是 I don't really know where to start what should I do 我真的不知道从哪里开始我应该做什么 that's a great question there are really cheap robotic arms out there that you 这是一个很好的问题，那里确实有便宜的机械臂，你可以 would start with so like craig and i were actually talk about this earlier 会像克雷格一样开始，实际上我之前就讨论过这个 you can buy like a five axis arm which is you know servos yeah there's a few 你可以买一个五轴臂，你知道伺服系统是的，有一些 different ones I actually haven't heard of that one they use servos they can 不同的，我实际上没有听说过，他们使用伺服系统，他们可以 00:08 00:08 lift a few hundred grams and you can just like put on your desk and have it 举起几百克，你就可以把它放在桌子上 like you know move your pen from one point to the other you know and you can 就像你知道的那样，将你的笔从一个点移动到另一个点，你知道你可以 actually obviously add more complex tasks on top of that so pick up one of 实际上显然在此基础上添加了更复杂的任务，所以选择其中之一 those and then start using one of the open-source libraries out there 这些，然后开始使用其中一个开源库 programming a robotic arm is a lot easier than maybe it was a long time ago 对机械臂进行编程可能比很久以前容易得多 because they handle all the complicated stuff like how do you get from point A 因为他们处理所有复杂的事情，比如如何从 A 点出发 to point B you can kind of just tell it move to these coordinates and XYZ and 对于 B 点，您可以告诉它移动到这些坐标和 XYZ 以及 then sometimes you tweak it a little bit for like how it moves there but the 然后有时你会稍微调整一下它的移动方式，但是 details are handled right now by software that's been developed over the 详细信息现在由开发的软件处理 last 10 20 years and when you guys are programming your larger cool or arm are 过去 10 20 年，当你们编程时，你们的大酷或手臂是 you doing any of it in simulation are there any good software packages to be 你在模拟中做任何事情有没有好的软件包可以 to be had there I think we we had an intern working on 我想我们有一个实习生在那里工作 00:09 00:09 on that project over the summer and I think just at the end he discovered some 整个夏天他都在研究这个项目，我想就在最后他发现了一些 simulation tools and yes basically you can you can get a simulation that shows 模拟工具，是的，基本上你可以，你可以得到一个显示的模拟 your environment shows actually this is one of the built-in features to Ross 您的环境实际上表明这是罗斯的内置功能之一 it's just a module that you can include and it'll let you simulate and just sort 它只是一个您可以包含的模块，它可以让您模拟并进行排序 of show you exactly where the bot is or if you're running simulations where you 向您显示机器人的确切位置，或者您是否正在运行模拟 think it is so the tooling around this I think has 我认为围绕这个的工具我认为有 been improving and actually today is in a you know it has a lot of things that 一直在进步，实际上今天你知道它有很多东西 we could use but it's it's in a pretty good spot today I think that's also an 我们可以使用，但它今天处于一个非常好的位置，我认为这也是一个 excellent point to bring up because that is going to be the future of Robotics 提出这一点非常好，因为这将是机器人技术的未来 simulating so that the robot can teach itself how to do things and basically 进行模拟，以便机器人能够自学如何做事，基本上 humans can train robots to do more kind of like objective oriented tasks and 人类可以训练机器人做更多类似目标导向的任务 then it can figure out the details for you our goal is to eventually build a 然后它可以为您找出详细信息我们的目标是最终建立一个 00:10 00:10 system for let's say assembling a product that we're making on an assembly 比方说，用于组装我们正在组装上制造的产品的系统 line we would love an arm that is dexterous enough to replicate actions 我们希望有一只足够灵巧的手臂来复制动作 that human hands can do and maybe just have like a video camera and have a 人手可以做到，也许就像摄像机一样 human assemble one and then the arm will 人类组装一个然后手臂就会 teach itself how to do that from a video that would be amazing 通过视频教自己如何做到这一点，这将是令人惊奇的 that is what we want to build I think that requires simulation is what we're 这就是我们想要构建的，我认为这需要模拟，这就是我们要做的 working towards interesting and does anyone manufacture today anything that 努力变得有趣，今天有人制造任何东西吗？ resembles human dexterity in terms of you know fingers so there's there's 类似于人类的灵巧程度，你知道手指，所以有 definitely some robot arms that are meant to like grab objects and they have 肯定有一些机器人手臂是用来抓取物体的，而且它们有 fingers and they're slow they're not the best there's probably two two movements 手指，它们很慢，它们不是最好的，可能有两个两个动作 when it comes to like grippers in the robotics world there's the hard you know 当谈到机器人世界中的抓手时，你知道有什么困难 rigid like one or two AXI actuators and then there's the soft grippers so the 像一两个 AXI 执行器一样刚性，然后是软夹具，因此 00:11 00:11 hard actuators you designed to do one task and like you optimize it for that 您设计用于执行一项任务的硬执行器，并且您为此优化了它 and it can do that over and over again and it's cheap and simple this 它可以一次又一次地做到这一点，而且便宜又简单 soft actuators which are not as mature are kind of designed to like pick up 不太成熟的软执行器是设计来喜欢拾取的 objects that are weird like this without 像这样奇怪的物体没有 breaking it a lot of them even work with like air sacks that just kind of like 他们中的很多人甚至使用类似气囊的东西来打破它 closed around things and those really aren't dexterous enough for precise 封闭在事物周围，而这些事物确实不够灵巧，无法精确地 enough I haven't seen anything yet that is like as good as a human hand 够了，我还没见过像人手一样好的东西 just kind of weird following the line of training yourself to learn robotics 遵循训练自己学习机器人技术的路线有点奇怪 where are the areas that you see developing right now that are super 您认为目前正在发展的超级领域有哪些？ interesting in high value to companies where people can start contributing to 对公司具有高价值，人们可以开始为之做出贡献 to open-source projects so if I were in undergrad or getting my Master's right 开源项目，所以如果我是本科生或获得硕士学位 now I would be learning Ross and I would 现在我要学习罗斯，我会 be focusing on research that was towards that training problem this is also 专注于针对该培训问题的研究，这也是 problem that opening eye is working on and has published some cool videos and Open Eye 正在解决这个问题，并发布了一些很酷的视频和 00:12 00:12 papers about if you're really just looking to get a job there's kind of two 关于如果你真的只是想找一份工作的论文，有两种 flavors of Robotics right now there's like the research side which is what 现在机器人技术的风格有研究方面 we're talking about and then there's the industrial automation side industrial 我们正在谈论工业自动化方面 automation is very different industrial automation is about performing one task 自动化是非常不同的工业自动化是关于执行一项任务 over and over again really efficiently and cost-effectively companies most 一次又一次真正高效且最具成本效益的公司 manufacturing companies will invest hundreds of thousands of dollars 制造企业将投资数十万美元 building a machine that just does one thing really efficiently so it's not 建造一台只真正高效地做一件事的机器，所以它不是 flexible is the main difference to do that you need to be a mechanical 灵活是主要的区别，你需要成为一个机械人 engineer an electrical engineer and have a little bit of software knowledge and 工程师一名电气工程师并具有一点软件知识 then you can become an industrial automation expert and go work you know 那么您就可以成为工业自动化专家并从事您熟悉的工作 for Toyota automating their next assembly line or Tesla may be a little 对于丰田来说，自动化他们的下一条装配线或特斯拉可能有点 bit cooler so there there are two paths there's the research path which is 有点酷，所以有两条路，其中一条是研究路 probably more interesting for the intellectual folks who like to think 对于喜欢思考的知识分子来说可能更有趣 00:13 00:13 about problems that have been solved yet and then there's the industrial 关于尚未解决的问题，然后是工业 automation path which is a little bit more practical a little bit more like 自动化路径更实用一点更像 classical engineer I'm just gonna like build stuff in so Daniel what's come 古典工程师我只是想在里面建造一些东西所以丹尼尔会发生什么 across your desk with the AI grants related to robotics yes so Justin back 办公桌上放着与机器人相关的人工智能补助金，是的，所以贾斯汀回来了 color AI grant is a kind of decentralized research lab 色彩人工智能资助是一种去中心化的研究实验室 where people can fill out an application in about five minutes and within a 人们可以在大约五分钟内填写一份申请 couple of weeks we let them know for giving them a grant for what that has 几周后，我们让他们知道我们为他们提供了一笔补助金 both cash and twenty thousand dollars in GPU training credits and we've gotten 现金和两万美元的 GPU 培训积分，我们已经得到了 almost a thousand applications for the second round of AI grant 第二轮人工智能资助近千份申请 many of them focus on of the ones involved in robotics they're almost all 他们中的许多人都专注于与机器人技术有关的人，他们几乎都是 entirely in simulation the advantage to simulation is you could 完全在模拟中模拟的优点是你可以 do this from you know your pajamas at home you don't have to buy anything and 这样做你知道你在家穿睡衣，你不需要买任何东西 they all they're all kind of very similar to the work opening eyes trying 他们都和睁开眼睛尝试的工作非常相似 00:14 00:14 to do where you want to give an agent a video feed like a human would get and 执行您想要向代理提供像人类一样的视频源的操作 try to get it to learn to do something I you know all of the approaches are kind 尝试让它学会做某事我你知道所有的方法都是友善的 of as far as I could tell somewhat similar to what general research is 据我所知，与一般研究有些相似 doing so if you have to come across something incredibly different and weird 如果您必须遇到一些非常不同和奇怪的事情，请这样做 but I'm eager to find it and help that person get their paper published if they 但我渴望找到它并帮助那个人发表他们的论文，如果他们 have if they're listening to this podcast now yeah well what are the 如果他们现在正在听这个播客，那么有什么 approaches people are using because I don't think it's I mean AI is obviously 人们正在使用的方法，因为我不认为这是我的意思是人工智能显然是 of interest to many people but robotics specifically within a I like how 很多人都感兴趣，但机器人技术尤其是我喜欢的领域 training in a simulation even works could you just walk through that for 模拟训练甚至有效，你能简单地演练一下吗？ people who want to understand yeah and and I'm sure they're there folks 想要理解的人是的，我相信他们就在那里 that are significantly more expert in this than me but the rough idea is even 他们在这方面比我更专业，但粗略的想法是 00:15 00:15 beyond a simulation in reality which what you're doing is you set up a camera 除了现实中的模拟之外，你所做的就是设置一个相机 and you use you know about the 2014-15 technology that we we've uncovered as a 你使用你知道的 2014-15 技术，我们发现了作为 species which is we've managed to teach computers how to look inside images to 我们已经成功教会计算机如何查看图像内部的物种 get a general understanding of what the agent is looking at and then you'll 大致了解代理正在查看的内容，然后您将 traditionally you'll have you know ideally a human performance ask so you 传统上，您会理想地了解人类的表现要求，以便您 know you're moving a ball from one hand to another or you moving a ball from one 知道您正在将球从一只手移至另一只手，或者将球从一只手移至另一只手 point to another and then there's kind of two sinner 指向另一个，然后就有两个罪人 here there's one we're totally on a free-form basis the robot arm will try 这里有一个我们完全在自由形式的基础上机器人手臂会尝试的 to do the same exact thing and it's just trying to emulate what the human hand 做同样的事情，它只是试图模仿人手的动作 saw there's another approach which is that the robot arm has some type of goal 看到还有另一种方法，那就是机器人手臂有某种类型的目标 function that it is looking to maximize and so it kind of flails around and 它希望最大化的功能，所以它有点摇摆不定 realizes okay like randomly moving around in space bad idea because that's 意识到就像在太空中随机移动一样是个坏主意，因为那是 00:16 00:16 not increasing my goal function you know touching this ball seemingly 没有增加我的目标函数你知道似乎触摸这个球 slightly better you know moving this ball across the coordinates of the right 稍微好一点，你知道将这个球移动到右侧的坐标上 place even better and so in particular this is done with things that where you 地方甚至更好，所以特别是这是通过你所在的地方完成的 could measure very clearly the objective function like unscrewing a cap from a 可以非常清楚地测量目标函数，就像拧开盖子一样 bottle and then you basically try to match those two things together into an 瓶子然后你基本上尝试将这两个东西匹配在一起 end-to-end system as far as I can tell this at a truly end-to-end system you 据我所知，这是一个真正的端到端系统 know that the works in the physical world I don't think has been 知道我认为物质世界中的作品并没有被 demonstrated by anyone yet but but I may be wrong 已经被任何人证明过，但我可能是错的 there was one gnarly unnamed research lab that had a just a goal Maximizer 有一个粗糙的无名研究实验室，它的目标只有一个：Maximizer robot arm I think with a bottle cap and this thing was it wasn't even given any 机器人手臂，我想是带着瓶盖的，这东西甚至没有给它任何东西 image priors it was just he'll try to unscrew the cap and so the arm which is 先验图像只是他会尝试拧开盖子，因此手臂是 quite strong is flailing around trying to unscrew the cap and it's it's not 相当强劲，正在尝试拧开盖子，但事实并非如此 00:17 00:17 smart it's just trying to unscrew the cap you know don't don't blame it and 聪明，它只是想拧开盖子，你知道，不要责怪它， then apparently the store so the server is told it grabs onto a researchers arm 然后显然是商店，所以服务器被告知它抓住了研究人员的手臂 and it's like oh let me try to squeeze in screws okay that's not working 就像哦，让我尝试拧入螺丝，好吧，这不起作用 I said no harm was done but I think it's an interesting example to how a I true 我说没有造成任何伤害，但我认为这是一个有趣的例子，说明了我是如何做到这一点的 AI could be actually like not evil pretty harmless it's just doing this 人工智能实际上可能并不邪恶，相当无害，它只是这样做 other thing where it just wants to get more paperclips and then by accident 其他它只是想获得更多回形针然后意外地发生的事情 destroys this all yeah hopefully the goal function isn't like take over the 摧毁这一切是的希望目标函数不像接管 world launch nuclear missiles I guess my point is even with a simple goal 世界发射核导弹 我想我的观点是即使有一个简单的目标 function like get more energy to run faster you could accidentally kind of 功能就像获得更多能量跑得更快，你可能会意外地有点 cause a lot of damage protect humans from themselves kill them all I mean 造成很多伤害 保护人类免受自身伤害 杀死他们 我的意思是 who's putting in the bounds right now obviously open AI is doing ton of 现在谁在限制显然开放人工智能正在做很多事情 research around this but yeah I mean when you hit a level of intelligence 围绕这个进行研究，但是是的，我的意思是当你达到一定的智力水平时 maybe slightly passed unscrewing someone's arm word of Constraints people 也许稍微通过了拧开某人的手臂的话约束人 00:18 00:18 are trying to create an AI right now boy it's an active area of research and 现在正在尝试创建一个人工智能，男孩，这是一个活跃的研究领域 tweeting of Elon Musk so I mean I think there's a lot of people working on safe 埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）发推文，所以我的意思是，我认为有很多人致力于安全 AI I'm personally pretty skeptical on the regulation approach that people keep 人工智能 我个人对人们所采取的监管方法持怀疑态度 on proposing because it's not clear to me how you could make it global and and 关于提议，因为我不清楚如何才能使其全球化并且 I don't think that you know all the smart people are in America I think 我认为你不知道所有聪明人都在美国 they're spread across the world so I think regulation would just mean that 它们遍布世界各地，所以我认为监管意味着 America's lost to the game I think there's folks working on you know kind 美国输给了这场游戏，我想有人在为你工作，你知道吗？ of failsafe or Deadman switch is something that 故障保护或 Deadman 开关的作用是 would stop an algorithm before it starts hitting folk hurting other humans 会在算法开始攻击伤害其他人类之前停止它 there's people working on algorithms that are cooperative in their style so 有人正在研究以他们的风格合作的算法，所以 open and deep mind actually published a paper on this where that the training is 开放而深刻的思想实际上发表了一篇关于这方面的论文，其中培训是 done with a human in the loop who's actively making suggestions and the 与一个积极提出建议的人一起完成 hypothesis I believe is that well if that would always happen at least the 我相信如果这种情况总是发生的话那就很好了，至少 00:19 00:19 human could direct the AI to be like Oz bad 人类可以指挥人工智能像奥兹国一样糟糕 let's stop hurting my arm type of thing and I'm sure there's plenty other 让我们停止伤害我的手臂之类的事情吧，我相信还有很多其他的事情 approaches that I'm not not even aware of I am personally I haven't heard it's 我什至不知道的方法我个人我没有听说过 it's quite fascinating when there's a area like this there's an open problem 当像这样的领域存在一个悬而未决的问题时，这是非常有趣的 which is the AGI problem which we're all aware of we're all talking about you 这是我们都知道的 AGI 问题，我们都在谈论你 know over dinner oh my gosh what's gonna happen and no one's really thought of a 晚餐时就知道天哪会发生什么，但没人真正想到过 clean answer and it's kind of made me wonder if there is one at all because 干净的答案，这让我想知道是否有一个答案，因为 it's one of those things where I feel like who's an obvious one it would have 这是我觉得谁是显而易见的事情之一 it would have come up by now there's a lot of smart people thinking about it 现在应该已经出现了，有很多聪明人都在考虑这个问题 and so I've kind of resigned myself to believe that from AGI you know killing 所以我有点听天由命地相信，从 AGI 中你就知道杀戮 us it's not clear to me that there is a smart answer 我们不清楚是否有一个明智的答案 I mean depressingly if you go online you read stories about what we do to other 我的意思是，令人沮丧的是，如果您上网，您会读到有关我们对其他人所做的事情的故事 species we consider less intelligent right we're not that moral like there's 我们认为智力较低的物种，我们并不像那里那样有道德 a great slash very sad reddit thread about how people abuse characters from 一个关于人们如何滥用角色的伟大斜线，非常悲伤的 Reddit 帖子 The Sims oh no and you know we all did this you know you like build a house 模拟人生哦不，你知道我们都做过这个你知道你喜欢建造一座房子 00:20 00:20 put him in the pool and then you take out the yeah the ladder and we all 把他放进游泳池然后你拿出梯子然后我们都 thought it was hilarious but you think about it and you're like well that's 觉得这很搞笑，但你仔细想想，你会觉得这就是 kind of the same thing if you superimpose it onto a super smart AI to 如果你把它叠加到一个超级智能的人工智能上，就会得到同样的结果 us obviously we crush ants without giving it another thought I am skeptical 显然，我们压死了蚂蚁，没有再想一想，我对此表示怀疑 that we will find a way to fix that I am 我们会找到一种方法来解决我的问题 optimistic that that that's not gonna be 乐观地认为那不会是这样 what kills us as a species though okay I because I think there are far more 是什么杀死了我们作为一个物种，好吧，我因为我认为还有更多 threatening things that are closer for example the use of AI by a human to 威胁更接近的事物，例如人类使用人工智能 create some you know some type of nefarious damage so what's what's 制造一些你知道的某种类型的邪恶损害，那是什么 happening is there's this AI hype right now and so more and more industries are 现在正在发生这样的人工智能炒作，所以越来越多的行业正在 moving their infrastructure to kind of non-deterministic machine learning based 将他们的基础设施转移到基于非确定性机器学习的 stuff cars are going to be using machine learning to drive the electricity grid 汽车将使用机器学习来驱动电网 will manage itself using machine learning and so as a result it will be 将使用机器学习进行自我管理，因此它将是 more susceptible to attacks from that same thing as opposed to being manned by 更容易受到同一事物的攻击，而不是由 a human and so the power grid is now constantly being regulated by an 人类，因此电网现在不断受到 algorithm instead of a human could that algorithm be interrupted by another 算法而不是人类该算法是否会被另一个算法打断 00:21 00:21 smarter algorithm in a way that would been easier than to interrupt the human 更智能的算法，比打断人类更容易 eye I think so so I suspect war will actually not be 眼睛我这么认为所以我怀疑战争实际上不会 from a GI war and damage and carnage will be from weaponized dumb AI yeah 来自大兵战争，伤害和屠杀将来自武器化的愚蠢人工智能 是的 well to kind of like concretely connect the dots 有点像具体连接点 your robots currently right now are fixed to the ground but they're going to 您的机器人目前固定在地面上，但它们将会 start moving at some point right yeah they're gonna be put on mobile bases not 在某个时刻开始移动，是的，他们将被放置在移动基地上，而不是 dissimilar from like a table azad warehouse right and so have you begun 与像桌子一样的仓库不同，所以你开始了吗 that training process no we've gotten a few demos but the 培训过程我们已经得到了一些演示，但是 hardware is actually really early when Amazon acquired Kiva they just took that 硬件实际上很早，当亚马逊收购 Kiva 时，他们就拿走了它 out of the market and so right around now is when people are starting to 退出市场，所以现在人们开始 release mobile bases again but they're all in beta I think there are a few that 再次发布移动基地，但它们都处于测试阶段，我认为有一些 you can actually buy so no we haven't gotten started on the moving problem wow 你实际上可以购买，所以不，我们还没有开始解决搬家问题哇 so amazon's acquisition of Kiva you think this kind of slowdown innovation 所以亚马逊收购 Kiva 你认为这种放缓创新 00:22 00:22 like five years Wow something like that it took a long time for everyone else to 大约五年了 哇这样的事情其他人花了很长时间才 catch up yeah what about the the automated can I mean have you been to a 赶上是的，自动化怎么样？我的意思是你去过吗？ shipping container port ever I grew up in Long Beach California there's a 我在加州长滩长大的集装箱港口 massive yeah but I haven't like got the tour 很大，是的，但我不喜欢参加这次巡演 there are basically trailers that are autonomous I wonder I don't know who is 基本上都有自动驾驶的拖车 我想知道我不知道是谁 producing those but I don't think it was Cuban no keep it just does warehouse 生产这些，但我不认为这是古巴的，没有保留，它只是做仓库 robot yeah that's what I thought which is all like they can play picking pack 机器人 是的，这就是我的想法，就像他们可以玩拾取包一样 and stuff like that okay I think that's also the the shipyard example is an 诸如此类的事情，好吧，我认为这也是造船厂的例子 interesting it's an interesting example that shows how robotics scale in a way 有趣的是，这是一个有趣的例子，展示了机器人技术如何以某种方式扩展 that humans don't you could build a little mini shipping yard and train it 人类不知道，你可以建造一个小型的小型船场并训练它 on that or do it digitally right - it totally is a simulation and then roll it 对此或者以数字方式进行 - 这完全是一个模拟，然后滚动它 out and start moving around like multi-ton objects very quickly yeah 出去并开始像数吨重的物体一样快速移动是的 that's just a process that doesn't scale like it scales weight more efficiently 这只是一个不能像衡量体重那样更有效地扩展的过程 than a human process does which is a little bit scary what challenges do you 比人类流程做的事情有点可怕，你面临什么挑战 00:23 00:23 guys see if you wanted to scale to like a hundred thousand square-foot warehouse 伙计们看看你是否想扩大到十万平方英尺的仓库 you know for us it's actually so right now what we're building is kind of like 你知道对我们来说实际上现在我们正在构建的东西有点像 this footprint unit Factory which has 160 printers and we'll have like two 这个占地单位工厂有 160 台打印机，我们将有大约两台 arms moving around doing machine tending and then as parts come off of the 手臂四处移动，进行机器维护，然后当零件从机器上脱落时 printers they have to be post-process QC packed and shipped out I think when we 打印机，他们必须经过后处理质量控制包装并发货，我想当我们 automate each of those steps they each scale very easily most of the challenges 自动化每个步骤，每个步骤都可以轻松应对大多数挑战 getting the first part of it automated everything beyond that is kind of like 让第一部分自动化，除此之外的一切都有点像 can you buy the hardware quickly enough and traditional software scaling issues 您能否足够快地购买硬件以及传统软件的扩展问题 many of which are solved so going from a 1,800 square foot factory to a hundred 其中许多问题都得到了解决，因此从 1,800 平方英尺的工厂到 100 平方英尺的工厂 thousand square foot Factory is kind of like how many more arms do we need and 千平方英尺的工厂有点像我们还需要多少手臂 like how many AWS servers do we need to send up it's an engineering problem it 比如我们需要发送多少台 AWS 服务器，这是一个工程问题 00:24 00:24 actually doesn't seem that hard dude as CTO I mean so yeah I think there are 作为首席技术官，实际上看起来并不那么难，我的意思是，是的，我认为有 probably economies of scale that we could realize in a hundred thousand 可能我们可以通过十万个来实现规模经济 square foot space that we obviously can't get here but yeah I mean the easy 平方英尺的空间，我们显然无法到达这里，但是是的，我的意思是简单 answer to scaling would just be pound this footprint out as many times as we 缩放的答案就是将这个足迹重复我们的次数 can into that hundred thousand square foot space and we know basically like we 可以进入那十万平方英尺的空间，我们基本上知道就像我们一样 will keep costs basically where they are to 将把成本基本控制在原来的水平 but you know then we can slowly merge cells reorganize as we need to so this 但你知道我们可以根据需要慢慢合并单元格重组 is sort of our worst case scenario right now but we could in theory pop these 这是我们现在最坏的情况，但理论上我们可以弹出这些 open across the country if we needed to hmm it's very different from scaling a 如果我们需要的话，在全国范围内开放 嗯，这与扩大规模有很大不同 factory traditionally and this is a contentious top topic but scaling a 传统上的工厂，这是一个有争议的热门话题，但扩展 factory of robots is so much easier than scaling factory of people hiring people 机器人工厂比扩大雇用人员的工厂容易得多 is difficult as everyone knows hiring people who are good hiring people who 是很困难的，因为每个人都知道雇佣优秀的人雇佣优秀的人 00:25 00:25 you know show up to work on time etc hiring people in a different country if 你知道准时上班等在不同国家雇用人员，如果 your company doesn't speak that language it's difficult you know requires an 你的公司不会说这种语言，这很难，你知道需要一个 on-the-ground expert in the theoretical fully automated Factory case none of 理论全自动化工厂案例的实地专家 没有 those problems are real hmm if you can run a hundred thousand square foot 如果你能经营十万平方英尺的话，这些问题都是真实存在的 factory or a hundred thousand machine factory with 200 people it's a lot 工厂或者十万个机械厂有200人就很多了 easier than like a thousand people running a factory so that's I mean kind 比一千个人经营一家工厂容易，所以我的意思是善良 of the idea that Voodoo's built on is it'll be a lot easier to scale as we Voodoo 的构建理念是，随着我们的发展，它会更容易扩展 build out this footprint right but you're also factoring in being really 正确地构建这个足迹，但你也要考虑到真正的 close to many people who are interested in manufacturing right I heard on one 接近许多对制造感兴趣的人 我听说过 podcast that you offer like pickup for certain folks yeah is it still the case 您为某些人提供的播客，例如接送是的，情况仍然如此 yeah I'll be worried Brooklyn we're right outside up ahead okay so do you have a 是的，我会担心布鲁克林，我们就在前面，好吧，你有吗 vision of just you know many factories or would you rather one giant one we 愿景只是您知道许多工厂，还是您希望我们拥有一家大型工厂 think of it kind of like server farms it's semi local so maybe there's not a 认为它有点像服务器群，它是半本地的，所以也许没有 00:26 00:26 server from right down the street from everyone in the world but there might be 服务器来自世界上每个人的街道，但可能有 one within one day delivery distance yeah or potentially in pickup distance 一日内送货距离是的或可能在取货距离内 for for larger customers it's actually really common in manufacturing for a 对于较大的客户来说，这实际上在制造业中很常见 company like Toyota to contract with somebody who's gonna make you know a sub 像丰田这样的公司会与能让你了解潜艇的人签订合同 component of one of their cars and then require them to set up a factory right 他们的一辆汽车的组件，然后要求他们建立工厂权利 next to the Toyota factory with like a conveyor belt literally moving the parts 靠近丰田工厂，就像传送带一样移动零件 from one to the other it's kind of a crazy thing that they can just say we're 从一个到另一个，他们可以说我们是，这是一件疯狂的事情 gonna work together but you're gonna build this factory right next to us 我们会一起工作，但你要在我们旁边建这个工厂 we're not going to build it you are that's also a lot easier with a robotic 我们不会建造它，你是，使用机器人也容易得多 Factory you know and you can you can customize it so it's just the right size 您知道的工厂，您可以定制它，使其尺寸合适 on the topic of Toyota how do you kind of see the future of the materials that 关于丰田的话题，您如何看待这种材料的未来 you can use in 3d printing evolving so today I think when people think of 3d 你可以在不断发展的 3D 打印中使用，所以今天我认为当人们想到 3D 时 00:27 00:27 printing they think of the like basically little plastic parts are you 印刷他们认为基本上是小塑料部件，你是吗 always going to be stuck with that or is there a strategy where that kind of 总是会被困住，或者是否有一种策略可以使这种情况 changes in expands so our vision for Vudu is definitely to move past just 3d 变化不断扩大，因此我们对 Vudu 的愿景肯定是超越 3d printing but even within 3d printing you know it's been around since the 80s I 打印，但即使在 3D 打印中，你也知道它自 80 年代以来就已经存在了 think Boeing is 3d printing titanium parts for all of their planes now so 3d 认为波音现在正在为他们所有的飞机 3d 打印钛零件，所以 3d printing as a technology if you consider the entire range is a very capable 如果您认为整个系列都非常强大，那么印刷作为一种技术 technology and you know generally technology trickles down to the low end 技术，你知道技术通常会流向低端 that's what we'll see here so Vudu is building an infrastructure for 这就是我们将在这里看到的内容，因此 Vudu 正在构建基础设施 onboarding digital manufacturing technologies so it doesn't matter if 采用数字化制造技术，因此无论是否 it's 3d printing if it's capable of doing plastic metal whatever you know 如果它能够打印出你所知道的塑料金属，那么它就是 3D 打印 we're interested in anything that takes a digital file as input and outputs a 我们对任何以数字文件作为输入并输出的东西感兴趣 physical object at the end so that's how we're going to handle the quality and 最后是物理对象，这就是我们如何处理质量和 00:28 00:28 material questions that come up we got a question from from Twitter about the 出现的重大问题我们从 Twitter 收到了一个关于 future of 3d printing and this point is probably the biggest 3D打印的未来，这一点可能是最大的 barrier to like a 3d printer being in everyone's home 3d printers just right 像 3D 打印机一样进入每个家庭的障碍 3D 打印机恰到好处 now don't have the material capabilities or the multi-material capabilities to 现在不具备材料能力或多材料能力 produce most of the objects in your house right most things are a 生产你家里的大部分物品，大多数东西都是 combination of plastic components multi-step plastic components electrical 塑料部件的组合 多步塑料部件 电气 you know PCBs wiring soldering batteries like all of this stuff which is 你知道 PCB 接线焊接电池就像所有这些东西 currently assembled it seems like people don't think about when they say the 目前组装的似乎人们在说的时候没有想到 future is gonna be a 3d printer in my house making my stuff maybe like 1% of 未来我家里会有一台 3D 打印机，可以打印我的东西 1% the objects you own could be made by a 3d printer right now because they're 您拥有的物品现在可以通过 3D 打印机制作，因为它们是 just a single material so I think eventually we're gonna hit that 只是一种材料，所以我想最终我们会实现这一点 future where it's like the Star Trek replicator mm-hmm 未来就像星际迷航复制机一样嗯嗯 it's not gonna happen with any of the current technologies out there until 现有的任何技术都不会发生这种情况，直到 00:29 00:29 then digital manufacturing is still a thing 那么数字化制造仍然是一件事 digital file the physical product but it's gonna be a multi-step process which 对物理产品进行数字归档，但这将是一个多步骤的过程 I think benefits from economies of scale from a centralized facility what verse 我认为从集中设施的规模经济中获益是什么？ yeah what about even just literal objects kill just a plastic on this 是的，即使只是字面上的物体也只会杀死上面的塑料呢 chair yeah what is the time frame look like to where we could just have 3d 椅子 是的，我们可以拥有 3d 的时间范围是多少 printers making at least this part for us yeah 打印机至少为我们制造这部分是的 3d printing right now is not super cost-effective for big stuff meaning big 目前 3D 打印对于意义重大的大东西来说并不是超级划算 meeting anything larger than like a loaf of bread okay when you get bigger than 遇到任何比一条面包更大的东西，当你变得比 that it just gets prohibitively expensive and 它只是变得昂贵得令人望而却步 so printing that chair might cost a few hundred dollars there are big printers 所以打印那把椅子可能要花几百美元，有大型打印机 out there so people are definitely working on that problem but you kinda 所以人们肯定正在解决这个问题，但你有点 have to balance quality with speed and so I think the next wave of 3d printed 必须平衡质量和速度，所以我认为下一波 3D 打印 parts in the world and digital manufactured parts are all gonna be like 世界上的零件和数字制造的零件都会像 00:30 00:30 consumer packaged goods like smaller things that fit kind of again and just 消费包装商品，例如可以再次安装的较小物品 like loaf of bread size shape yeah you're not gonna start printing tables 就像一条面包的大小形状是的，你不会开始打印表格 and houses and stuff without significant improvements of the technology okay and 以及房屋和东西，如果技术没有显着改进，还可以 it's just expensive because it's a large amount of plastic it really comes down 只是价格昂贵，因为它含有大量塑料，而且确实会下降 to the extrusion rate of the Machine so let's say that that share is either 到机器的挤出率，所以我们可以说该份额是 injection molded or roto molded different moulding technologies you have 您拥有的注塑或滚塑不同的成型技术 like a physical mold which costs probably tens of thousands of dollars to 就像一个物理模具，可能要花费数万美元 make and you have a machine that very rapidly injects hot plastic into it and 制造并且你有一台机器可以非常快速地将热塑料注入其中并且 so the the rate of injection of those machines is probably like a thousand 所以这些机器的注射速度可能是一千 times faster than your average 3d printer so based on that fact alone you 比普通 3D 打印机快几倍，因此仅根据这一事实，您就可以 know you can just take the cost of the Machine time and the injection rate and 知道您可以只考虑机器时间和注射速率的成本 approximate how much it costs to build something and large objects just are too 估算建造某物的成本，大型物体也太贵了 00:31 00:31 expensive the ratios don't work yet so there's one handful of questions 价格昂贵，比率还不起作用，所以有一些问题 from Twitter one is about IP in China you remember this one yeah so Wyatt 来自 Twitter 的一篇是关于中国知识产权的，你还记得这个，所以 Wyatt Sanders asked how do you deal with intellectual property in China how hard 桑德斯问你在中国处理知识产权问题有多难 is it finding support for new hardware as opposed to software I'm trying to 它是否正在寻找对新硬件的支持，而不是我正在尝试的软件 understand the question exactly I read it and I have a few questions about the 完全理解这个问题我读过它并且我有一些关于 question but I'll do my best since this is a in person question so honestly I 问题，但我会尽力而为，因为这是一个面对面的问题，所以老实说，我 you know I think with IP unless you're incredibly restrictive about like what 你知道我认为知识产权除非你对什么有非常严格的限制 gets out basically anything that isn't a well guarded trade secret somebody else 基本上泄露了其他人没有严格保护的商业秘密的任何内容 will have the most interesting I guess story I heard is when you're 我想我听到的最有趣的故事就是当你 manufacturing in China IP is thought about very differently than it is here I 中国对制造业知识产权的看法与这里截然不同 00:32 00:32 think there's kind of this belief that like things are just shared and so 认为有一种信念，即类似的事物只是共享的，所以 that's why you like everybody gets the sneak peek of an iPhone because in 这就是为什么你喜欢每个人都抢先体验一下 iPhone，因为 reality culturally let that culturally it's not a big as big of a deal to just 现实文化上让文化上这并不是什么大不了的事 kind of like share stuff I feel like so it's very different in China than it is 有点像分享我喜欢的东西，所以这与中国的情况有很大不同 in the u.s. so if you're getting something made in China I wouldn't 在美国。所以如果你要买中国制造的东西我不会 really count on IP being a big factor and even if you can keep something 真正依靠知识产权作为一个重要因素，即使你可以保留一些东西 totally under wraps like let's say you're building a top-of-the-line drone 完全保密，就像假设您正在建造一架顶级无人机 or something once this out of the market somebody in 或者一旦这个东西退出市场，有人在 China will buy one and then in like two or three months just replicate it mm-hmm 中国会购买一个，然后在两三个月内复制它，嗯嗯 it's not very difficult for them to do that with hardware hardware is becoming 对他们来说，用硬件做到这一点并不难 硬件正在变得 easier and easier to replicate over time and so it's getting closer to software 随着时间的推移，复制变得越来越容易，因此它越来越接近软件 so I think hardware IP will actually work a little bit more like software IP 所以我认为硬件IP实际上会更像软件IP 00:33 00:33 which is difficult to protect so actually an interesting to talk about 这是很难保护的，所以实际上是一个有趣的话题 voodoo again a little bit and where we fit into this one of the benefits of 再次巫毒一点，我们融入其中的好处之一 digital manufacturing is that you're not rebuilding your molds all the time when 数字化制造的特点是您不必一直重建模具 your iterating on your product so actually 实际上你对你的产品进行了迭代 the avenue for manufacturing companies protect protecting their products could 制造公司保护其产品的途径可以 be just iterating more rapidly and using companies like us to really stay ahead 只是更快地迭代并利用像我们这样的公司来真正保持领先地位 of the market mm-hmm how did Apple think about it 市场的嗯嗯苹果是怎么想的 you'd have to ask them no comment all right next question 你必须问他们下一个问题不要发表评论 Enrique asks I don't know if you would even have an answer to this but um 3d 恩里克问我不知道你是否能回答这个问题，但是 3d printed solar panels have you heard of this no I didn't even see that question 印刷太阳能电池板 你听说过这个吗 不 我什至没有看到这个问题 came in on Facebook man I don't know anything about to do that yes yeah what 进来了 Facebook 伙计，我不知道该怎么做 是的，什么 do we have any context for this question the context is and I'm adding a word 对于这个问题我们有任何背景吗？背景是，我要添加一个词 00:34 00:34 here what has been the progress regarding 3d solar panels which I assume 我认为 3D 太阳能电池板的进展是什么 means 3d printed solar panels got it my guess is middle a lot of like 意味着 3D 打印太阳能电池板得到了它，我猜是中间很多像 processes that you use in making chips or dealing with silicon wafers have the 您在制造芯片或处理硅晶圆时使用的工艺具有 same names as 3d printing processes so there's like stereo lithography is a 与 3D 打印工艺同名，所以立体光刻是一种 common way of getting parts 3d printed basically that just means you have like 获得 3D 打印零件的常见方法基本上意味着您有喜欢的 a laser that's itching some pattern into 激光在其中刻画出一些图案 something so I can imagine a world where you can make solar panels with three 所以我可以想象一个世界，你可以用三个来制造太阳能电池板 versions but I actually don't know anything about it all right next 版本，但我实际上不知道接下来的一切 question then bit-bit asks what will 3d printing will it ever be incorporated 那么 bit-bit 会问 3D 打印会被纳入什么领域吗？ into our educational system the other way the way other technologies have 以其他技术的方式进入我们的教育系统 definitely that's a pretty simple answer yeah I mean I actually the first time I 这绝对是一个非常简单的答案是的，我的意思是我实际上第一次 used a 3d printer was in high school oh really 高中时用过3D打印机哦，真的 yeah to go to high school I went to this 是的，为了上高中，我去了这个 00:35 00:35 really nerdy school in California called the California Academy of math and 加州有一所非常书呆子的学校，叫做加州数学学院 science it was a public school but they got sponsorships from like engineering 科学这是一所公立学校，但他们得到了工程等的赞助 companies to help us get things like 3d printers so yeah I think it's definitely 公司帮助我们获得 3D 打印机之类的东西，所以是的，我认为这绝对是 moving in that direction and that when I was in high school that the $2,000 朝着这个方向前进，当我上高中时，2,000 美元 printer didn't exist so it was a big deal to have this like $30,000 machine 打印机还不存在，所以拥有一台价值 30,000 美元的机器是一件大事 in the you know that we could use hmm so machines are cheap enough there they 你知道我们可以使用嗯，所以那里的机器足够便宜 cost the same amount as a computer it'll just follow the same trend like 成本与计算机相同，它只会遵循相同的趋势，例如 computers started ending up in classrooms in the 90s right yeah so if 计算机在 90 年代开始进入教室，是的，所以如果 today is the 90s of computers in 20 years right I think kids will probably 今天是 20 年后计算机的 90 年代，我想孩子们可能会 using them to make all sorts of things okay I did have a couple questions about 用它们来做各种各样的事情我确实有几个问题 just your experience in YC were you guys in this group reading Daniels group yes 只是你在 YC 的经历 你们这个小组里的人读过丹尼尔斯小组吗 是的 00:36 00:36 yeah yes we were now I can connect the dots we can talk about Daniel off the 是的，是的，我们现在可以把这些点联系起来，我们可以谈论丹尼尔 record but what was your uh what was your experience like it well I see being 记录一下，但是你的经历是什么，我认为是这样的 a hardware company do you find it was any different ah yes I mean we're we're 一家硬件公司，你发现它有什么不同吗？是的，我的意思是我们是我们是 not quite a hardware company is the other side of it so we I think before we 另一面不完全是一家硬件公司，所以我们我认为在我们之前 went to IC we didn't quite know how to position ourselves with investors or 去了 IC，我们不太知道如何向投资者定位自己，或者 other people because we're not a hardware company we're not a software 其他人，因为我们不是一家硬件公司，我们也不是一家软件公司 company exclusively so I think being in YC and talking to Daniel and talking to 公司独家所以我认为在 YC 并与 Daniel 交谈并与 Sam basically helped us find ourselves as a robotics company that's that's 山姆基本上帮助我们找到了一家机器人公司，就是这样 really what it comes down to which is the intersection of hardware and 真正归结为硬件和技术的交集 software and if we succeed in the future we will have contributed significant 软件，如果我们在未来取得成功，我们将做出重大贡献 gains to the world of robotics and automation in manufacturing hmm do you 制造领域的机器人和自动化世界的收益嗯，你呢 00:37 00:37 remember what they were like in the beginning yeah grabbing pretty pretty 还记得他们一开始的样子是的，抓得很漂亮 formidable I think they were more formidable by the end though and I think 强大我认为他们到最后更强大而且我认为 why see the hope is that Y C gives founders a lot of things but one that 为什么看到希望是 Y C 为创始人提供了很多东西，但其中一个 often people discount because it's I think a little bit hard to capture in a 人们经常打折，因为我认为在一个例子中捕捉到这一点有点困难 couple of bullet points you can read on the Internet is it really changes 您可以在互联网上阅读的几个要点是否真的发生了变化 founders mentality and the way they think of just how big their company 创始人的心态以及他们对公司规模的看法 could be and I'm not saying that you guys were Myka when you came in you were 可能是，我并不是说你们进来时就是 Myka already great you had already had a great business but I have found that 已经很棒了，你的生意已经很棒了，但我发现 with the the Voodoo founders and and a lot of other folks it it hopefully takes 与 Voodoo 创始人和许多其他人一起，希望这需要 it to the next in terms of figuring out how to position 下一步是弄清楚如何定位 their company when talking to investors internally and frankly to themselves 他们的公司在内部与投资者交谈并坦白地自言自语时 hmm um a question we get often times is uh what is it like being a solo founder 嗯嗯，我们经常遇到的一个问题是，作为一名独立创始人是什么感觉 and why I see you guys are kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum with 以及为什么我看到你们有点处于光谱的另一端 four correct correct what's that experience been like uh we had a it was 四个 正确 正确 那段经历是怎样的 呃我们有过一次 00:38 00:38 actually really helpful for us because we're based in New York and ycs 实际上对我们很有帮助，因为我们的总部位于纽约和ycs obviously in California we kind of had this dilemma because we can't just move 显然，在加利福尼亚州，我们遇到了这种困境，因为我们不能只是搬家 the whole company there when we get into 当我们进入时整个公司都在那里 IC we have a factory we've got people so it was really helpful to kind of break IC，我们有一家工厂，我们有员工，所以这对打破僵局真的很有帮助 up going to YC on different weeks so that we could focus on like building 在不同的星期去YC，这样我们就可以专注于建设 things here but also make sure that somebody was there like talking to 这里的东西，但也要确保有人在那里，比如与人交谈 partners getting advice building the company otherwise you know I think our 合作伙伴寻求建设公司的建议，否则你知道我认为我们 founding story kind of goes back to the fact that we've known each other for a 创立故事可以追溯到我们相识很久的事实 long time we founded a previous company together 很长一段时间我们一起创立了以前的公司 sold that company and the typical pitfalls that you would find with a 出售该公司以及您会发现的典型陷阱 four-person team we've been lucky to avoid usually with four people I'd 我们很幸运能够避免四人团队，通常我会和四个人一起 imagine you run into like serious issues of like who owns what or you know two 想象一下你遇到了像谁拥有什么或者你认识两个这样的严重问题 people might not get a longer that there could be so many different problems 人们可能不会花更长的时间来了解可能存在这么多不同的问题 00:39 00:39 because your your graph gets bigger we are used to working together so luckily 因为你的图表变得更大，所以幸运的是我们习惯了一起工作 we haven't had any any issues then Oliver maybe you can confer no i would 我们没有任何问题那么奥利弗也许你可以商量不我会 just agree with what max is saying i think it's important to sort of carve 只是同意麦克斯的说法，我认为雕刻很重要 out roles for everybody and making sure that people are getting input to the 为每个人分配角色，并确保人们能够获得意见 things that they're really bringing value to but at a certain point you know 他们真正带来价值的事情，但在某个时刻你知道 not everybody is involved with every decision day to day right on a large 并非每个人都参与日常决策 founding team I think that sometimes hurts feelings or rubs people the wrong 创始团队 我认为有时会伤害感情或惹恼别人 way but for us I think we've done a pretty good job of defining what 方式，但对我们来说，我认为我们在定义什么方面做得很好 everyone's role is on the team and making the hard decisions together but 每个人的角色都是团队中的一员，共同做出艰难的决定，但是 also making sure that you know we're not taking things personally when hey 还要确保你知道我们不会把事情当成是针对你个人的，嘿 somebody had a meeting and a decision was made 有人开会并做出决定 it's it's I think everybody buys into the idea that we're a team and we're 我认为每个人都相信我们是一个团队，而且我们 doing this together and everybody's got a part to play there even if it's not 一起做这件事，每个人都有自己的一份工作，即使不是 00:40 00:40 always exactly in the direction they want to go mm-hmm 总是准确地朝着他们想去的方向嗯嗯 just for folks that are listening to this inner maybe single founder is 只适合那些正在倾听这位内心的人，也许是单身创始人 wondering how to meet co-founders how how did you guys originally all meet we 想知道如何认识联合创始人，你们最初是怎么认识我们的 have a very funny story I would say no sorry go on 有一个非常有趣的故事我会说不抱歉继续 so voodoo has four founders three of us went to college together 所以 Voodoo 有四个创始人 我们三个人一起上大学 Oliver was actually that great above me and John who's one of our founders John 奥利弗实际上比我和约翰更伟大，他是我们的创始人之一约翰 and I actually kind of decided we wanted 我实际上决定我们想要 to start a company while we were juniors we had internships that summer that we 在我们大三的时候创办一家公司，那年夏天我们进行了实习 like didn't like so we dropped them starting a company Oliver had graduated 喜欢不喜欢所以我们放弃了他们创办了一家公司奥利弗已经毕业 already and had a job at teradata and we convinced him to quit his job and 已经在 Teradata 工作了，我们说服他辞职了 move back to Claremont which is where we went to school and live in a house with 搬回克莱蒙特，那是我们上学的地方，住在一所房子里 two people who were still in school so I I was doing training with teradata I'd 两个人还在学校，所以我正在使用 teradata 进行训练 00:41 00:41 been there I think for six weeks or something like that and I had to go quit 我想在那里呆了六个星期或类似的事情，我不得不退出 basically during a training program and so that was difficult and then and then 基本上是在训练计划期间，所以这很困难，然后然后 had to move basically across the street from the college I had just graduated is 基本上不得不搬到我刚毕业的大学街对面 a bit humbling at the time but clearly sitting here I think the right decision 当时有点谦卑，但显然坐在这里我认为这是正确的决定 well what was that pitch like because that that's another very common question 那个音调是什么样的，因为这是另一个非常常见的问题 like how do I convince someone to join my team that's that's a really good 就像我如何说服某人加入我的团队，这真的很好 question I'm interested in hearing Oliver's perspective because the other 我有兴趣听听奥利弗的观点，因为另一个 weird thing about our our histories we weren't like best friends before we 我们的历史很奇怪，在我们之前我们不像最好的朋友 started our first company I kind of knew John and John kind of knew Oliver 创办了我们的第一家公司 我有点认识约翰，约翰也有点认识奥利弗 because we went to a small school and I was in a class with John did you know 因为我们去了一所小学校，我和约翰在一个班，你知道吗 Oliver at all I don't think we'd met until you guys were pitching me on 奥利弗 我根本不认为我们见过面，直到你们向我推销 joining so there was a little bit of risk right which is why I think we got 加入所以有一点风险，这就是为什么我认为我们得到了 really lucky yeah that our personalities were compatible 真的很幸运，我们的性格很兼容 00:42 00:42 we went to a really like tech focus school so I think just coming from the 我们去了一所非常喜欢科技重点学校，所以我想刚从 same environment was a good starting point but to get back to your question 相同的环境是一个很好的起点，但回到你的问题 the pitch was do you want to start a company and you know selling him on the 推销的内容是你想创办一家公司吗？你知道把他卖给 future of 3d printing which at the time was really easy because it was 3D 打印的未来，在当时确实很容易，因为它 everywhere I remember one night we had to drive down to San Diego and get 我记得有一天晚上我们不得不开车去圣地亚哥 dinner with all of his parents and convinced them that it was also very 与他所有的父母共进晚餐，并让他们相信这也是非常好的 old-fashioned yeah yeah almost like we were dating right I don't know what 老式的 是的 是的 几乎就像我们正在约会一样 我不知道是什么 happened from from your self yeah I mean the pitch was basically do you want to 发生在你自己身上是的，我的意思是，球场基本上是你想要吗 do fun stuff or not and I wasn't feeling 无论是否做有趣的事情，我都没有感觉 super fulfilled in the position I was at so I tend to be a very cautious and a 我对自己所处的位置非常满意，所以我倾向于非常谨慎和 cautious person I like to think of like you know worst-case scenarios and stuff 我喜欢谨慎的人，就像你知道最坏的情况和事情一样 like that this was a very out of character decision for me I think to 就像这样，这对我来说是一个非常不符合性格的决定，我认为 00:43 00:43 just sort of bail on a job and jump in but it worked out I think a lot of it 只是保释一份工作然后跳进去，但它成功了，我想很多 comes down to timing right it's they just they got me at the right time 归根结底是时机正确，他们只是在正确的时间找到了我 I was not their first choice actually which i think is an important thing to 实际上我并不是他们的第一选择，我认为这对他们来说很重要 bring up just because for a solo founder out there who's trying to find somebody 提出这个问题只是因为对于一个想要寻找合适人选的独立创始人来说 to make it work doesn't have to be your first choice doesn't have to be your 让它发挥作用不一定是你的第一选择不一定是你的 second choice there's somebody out there 第二个选择有人在那里 that you can probably build this company with mm what were the technical 你可能可以和mm一起建立这家公司，技术是什么 capabilities of the other people on the team when they were trying to bring you 团队中其他人试图带你来时的能力 on so it was just the two of them they're both engineering or they had 所以只有他们两个人，他们都是工程师，或者他们有 their engineering degrees or we're getting them at the time so really they 他们获得了工程学位，或者我们当时就获得了他们，所以他们真的 were looking for a someone with a software background to you know join the 正在寻找一位具有软件背景的人，您知道加入 team and sort of take on that that part of the company so that's the role I came 团队并承担公司的那一部分，所以这就是我来的角色 00:44 00:44 on for that's the role I filled basically ever since is sort of owning 因为这就是我基本上扮演的角色，从那时起就是拥有 the software side of the product mm-hmm do you have any pro tips Daniel on what 产品的软件方面嗯嗯，你有什么专业技巧吗丹尼尔 about finding finding and then convincing a co-founder um I was a single founder 关于寻找发现然后说服联合创始人嗯我是一个单身创始人 at some point during YC and then I found 在 YC 期间的某个时候，然后我发现 someone who became a very good friend of mine to be my co-founder but we've it 一个成为我的好朋友的人成为我的联合创始人，但我们已经做到了 was a risky decision because I met him after YC his name is Robby and we spent 这是一个冒险的决定，因为我在 YC 之后遇见了他，他的名字叫罗比，我们一起度过了 maybe maybe a total of 48 72 hours together coding together talking before 也许之前总共有 48 72 个小时一起编码、一起聊天 we made the jump and so we kind of really lucked out in that way it's not 我们成功了，所以我们真的很幸运，但事实并非如此 like a theme yeah the one non-intuitive thing or semi non-intuitive thing that I 就像一个主题是的，我所认为的一个非直观的东西或半非直观的东西 would encourage I always encourage people to think about is as it turned 会鼓励我总是鼓励人们思考事情的本来面目 out for my interaction with Robby the fact that we were destined to be really 在我与罗比的互动中，我们注定要成为真正的人 good friends mattered more than the fact 好朋友比事实更重要 that we both worked well together and so 我们都合作得很好，所以 00:45 00:45 what I mean in particular is as it turns out we had the same shared taste in 我的意思是，事实证明我们有相同的共同品味 music we'd fairly similar political beliefs we 我们的音乐和政治信仰非常相似 had fairly similar hobbies we liked the same video games and that context I 我们有非常相似的爱好，我们喜欢同样的视频游戏，而且我的背景是这样的 found matters quite a bit because you end up spending a lot of your waking 发现这很重要，因为你最终会花很多醒着的时间 hours with this person and in some of those hours are quite stressful so it's 和这个人在一起几个小时，其中一些时间压力很大，所以 useful to have this shared substrate of you know oh we both you know like 让你知道的这个共享基础很有用哦，我们都知道，就像 deadmau5 or something to fall back on versus find just shooting for someone deadmau5 或其他可以依靠的东西，而不是只是为某人射击 who is you know technically competent mm-hmm I would agree with that point 你知道谁有技术能力嗯嗯我同意这一点 wholeheartedly yeah Oliver and John are two of my best friends and they weren't 全心全意是的，奥利弗和约翰是我最好的两个朋友，但他们不是 before we started our first company five or six years ago yeah and a lot of that 五六年前我们创办第一家公司之前是的，还有很多这样的事情 is we go to concerts together like we go to sports games we were roommates for 我们一起去听音乐会就像我们是室友一起去看体育比赛一样吗 four or five years yeah I still live with John yeah all ended up cause he's a 四五年了，是的，我仍然和约翰住在一起，是的，一切都结束了，因为他是一个 girlfriend so good for him but that I think that was key to us cuz we actually 女朋友对他很好，但我认为这对我们来说很关键，因为我们实际上 just enjoyed spending all that time together yep so I mean I think one way 只是很享受在一起度过的所有时光，是的，所以我的意思是我想一种方式 00:46 00:46 to encapsulate this is if you're looking for a co-founder maybe more better to 简而言之，如果你正在寻找联合创始人，也许更好 start looking I know this sounds kind of 开始寻找我知道这听起来有点像 lonely but start looking for someone who could be a really good friend and then 孤独但开始寻找一个可以成为真正好朋友的人，然后 and then and then your second filter is if they're technical or not mmm as 然后然后你的第二个过滤器是他们是否具有技术性嗯嗯 opposed to the opposite yeah that's a great point 反对相反的是的，这是一个很好的观点 so maybe kind of enclosing you guys have been out of YC for a while now six 所以也许有点封闭你们已经离开YC有一段时间了现在六 months yeah what's your advice for other YC companies 是的，您对其他 YC 公司有什么建议 that like I know the during why's the experience is very different than the 就像我知道为什么体验与以前有很大不同 post YC experience building your company YC 后建立公司的经验 what have you learned since YC hope that you'd like to share 自从 YC 以来你学到了什么希望你愿意分享 so I mean everybody has a slightly different experience after YC for us 所以我的意思是每个人在 YC 之后都有稍微不同的经历 obviously closing fundraising was something that took effort from me and 显然，结束筹款工作需要我和 John that was two months after YC just we had actually kind of pulled the round 约翰，那是在 YC 之后两个月，我们实际上已经扭转了局面 together but doing the documentation and paperwork took a long time because we 在一起，但做文件和文书工作花了很长时间，因为我们 priced the round instead of doing safes so if you can do saves two safes that's 定价回合而不是做保险箱，所以如果你能做到节省两个保险箱那就是 00:47 00:47 advice number one beyond that you know the the hardest thing that I think we've 第一个建议是你知道我认为我们经历过的最困难的事情 encountered since YC is keeping up the momentum YC is just great at giving you 由于 YC 保持着势头，所以遇到了 YC 非常擅长为您提供 this like excuse for everyone to work really hard like nobody took vacation 这就像每个人都努力工作的借口，就像没有人休假一样 all that stuff so there was a little bit of like a post YC hangover for the 所有这些东西所以有点像 YC 后的宿醉 company because we don't push ourselves really hard and then we had to like kick 公司，因为我们不会真正强迫自己，然后我们不得不喜欢踢 everyone back in the gear right after we closed fundraising and just start 在我们结束筹款并开始后，每个人都回到了工作状态 blazing ahead hmm so if I were to do it again I would be I 向前迈进嗯，所以如果我再做一次，我会是我 mean it's easy to say this in retrospect but I would be thinking about that 意思是说现在回想起来很容易，但我会考虑这一点 during YC and right afterwards like while you as a founder are really 在 YC 期间以及之后，就像你作为创始人真的 distracted with fundraising maybe the one thing you should focus on is like 因筹款而分心也许你应该关注的一件事是 keeping everyone else motivated and moving even if you're gonna kind of be 保持其他人的积极性和行动力，即使你会这样 busy and out of the loop mm-hmm that's my experience I guess we're also a 忙碌且脱离循环，嗯，这是我的经验，我想我们也是 little bit larger than probably the average YC company is so true we were 16 比 YC 公司的平均规模稍大一点，我们当时 16 岁 00:48 00:48 people in YC mm-hmm yeah I mean there definitely are some even larger YC 的人嗯，是的，我的意思是肯定有一些更大的人 companies but you guys were on that larger end I'm one idea on that that I 公司，但你们是在更大的一端，我有一个想法，我 found really useful for me when running my company is I guess I guess so I guess 我发现在经营我的公司时对我来说真正有用的是我想我想所以我想 the obvious forcing function you can give yourself as just PR and media so 你可以给自己施加明显的强迫功能，就像公关和媒体一样 you just tell the media you're gonna launch something in two months and then 你只需告诉媒体你将在两个月内推出一些东西，然后 you could use that as a way to rally the team that works but you can't do that 你可以用它来团结有效的团队，但你不能这样做 all the time um so the other thing that we used to do that was quite useful is 一直以来，所以我们过去常做的另一件事非常有用，那就是 we used to set up much like YC did these demo days where we didn't fight 我们过去的设置很像 YC 在这些演示日所做的那样，我们没有打架 everyone's friends family and most importantly significant others to demo 每个人的朋友家人，最重要的是重要的其他人来演示 what they've and people would sign up ahead of time 他们拥有什么以及人们会提前注册 and say oh you know by you know next month Samuel day I'm gonna have this and 并说哦，你知道，你知道下个月塞缪尔日我会得到这个 it turns out when you like towel your significant other that like you're gonna 事实证明，当你喜欢用毛巾擦拭你的另一半时，你就会 have built a thing by a date you really care because you don't want to look like 在你真正关心的日期之前建造了一个东西，因为你不想看起来像 a fool and so that provides kind of synthetic internal forcing function and 一个傻瓜，因此提供了一种合成的内力函数，并且 00:49 00:49 you can make it like a fun event invited people over to the office kind of 你可以把它变成一个有趣的活动，邀请人们来办公室 humanized the company to all the folks that don't work there and I found quite 让公司对所有不在公司工作的人变得人性化，我发现 a bit that instilled pressure in the team that we wouldn't have had otherwise 这给团队带来了一点压力，否则我们不会有这样的压力 hmm okay cool this was great thanks guys Thanks thank 嗯，好吧，太棒了，谢谢大家，谢谢，谢谢 you so much please change the future of manufacturing in America for the better 非常希望让美国制造业的未来变得更好 we're working on it you 我们正在努力解决你